KBC KBC prevailing variable rate

Sanparom

Frequent Poster
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97
After many months of hounding KBC, they finally sent me my Terms of Loan from 2005.

In one of the paragraphs, it states that when the fixed rate I was on was up (at the time it said after a year, but I subsequently did interest only for 3 years), that the Lender's prevailing variable interest rate would apply. I saw on another thread that this was the tracker. Is this correct and if so, should I have been given a tracker? Thanks.
 

raglan

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75
Hi Sanparom,

I had exact same with KBC fixed 06-09. Went to the previous FSO who sided with KBC. Was pinning my hopes on central bank investigation to sort it out. Ring his office is best way although they are very busy and you may get an answering machine on. Because you have not gone to FSO yet its worth a try to go through Padraic.
 

raglan

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75
Hi Sanparom, it was probably back in 2010 or 2011 that I went to FSO. The next step are been refused By FSO was.high.court which I couuuld never afford. The new FSO is supposed to be more fairer and consistent in results. I haven't done anything with it since but have kept track of it with Padraic's work and others posting here
 

Brendan Burgess

Founder
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37,868
the Lender's prevailing variable interest rate would apply.
Does your contract say that you are on a tracker rate or wording such as 1% above the ECB rate?

If not, you never had a tracker and the word "prevailing variable interest rate" is definitely not a tracker.

Brendan
 

Wonder

Registered User
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37
Brendan I would disagree with u iib bank had two rates in 205/2006 fixed and tracker which was the prevailing rate they did not have a standard variable rate.
 

Lightening

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319
Does your contract say that you are on a tracker rate or wording such as 1% above the ECB rate?

If not, you never had a tracker and the word "prevailing variable interest rate" is definitely not a tracker.

Brendan
I agree with Wonder I disagree with yoir comments on this Brendan. You are doing a great job however this has to be rectified;

This subject has been discussed in detail before on AAM regarding KBC.

The Central Bank are including advertisement, talks, communications (flyers) surrounding the decisions made at the time.

We know that in 2010 accounts with this wording rolled to trackers as per the "communication" (flyer) to brokers

You made this quote on AAM in March 2016 as follows;

Quote
If KBC had vague wording in their Fixed Rate Agreement, then I think that the vague wording in this would certainly lead a borrower to have a legitimate expectation that they were going to be put on a tracker at a specific margin.

If the Fixed Rate Agreement was clear, then this flyer won't help very much.

If the Fixed Rate Agreement or original mortgage said "prevailing rate", then I think that the borrowers can claim the 1.25% and 1.4% rates with some justification. (As percthe "communication" (flyer) )

If the broker says that he sold the KBC mortgage because of this flyer, then it would also help.

Brendan

Unquote
 

Brendan Burgess

Founder
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37,868
So you think that this might be affected by the fixed rate flyer issue?

Sanaprom has a contract which never mentioned a tracker.
He has a very clear Fixed Rate Agreement which does not mention a tracker.

I presume you all agree, that in the absence of the flyer, he has no case whatsoever for getting a tracker?

So if Sanaprom was a direct customer of KBC he has no case whatsoever for a tracker.

If he went through a broker and the broker said to him "If you fix, you will go onto a tracker at the prevailing rate", he just might have a case, but it's a real straw in the wind.

Brendan
 

Lightening

Frequent Poster
Messages
319
I agree Brendan that Sanaproms contract in 2005 is prior to the "communication" (flyer) from IIB to brokers in 2006 that we are all aware of. In this case it is a long shot but no harm in asking KBC is he going to be included. Did he deal with iib directly at the time?

Also a bit strange that KBC took months to send his contracts.
 

PJDCol

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134
With regard KBC - I see this is were we are at. Would you agree?

The media have essentially confirmed that KBC are one of the banks that disagree with the Central Bank review. So essentially what the central bank have said for customers to do next is to contact KBC Complaints Department and get them to confirm that we were not successful in the review. For any complaints, KBC I believe have 90 days to reply (and trust me you will get the response on the 90th day). This would add another 3 months and then next step is to go to the FSO. This would take a another few months before any sort of response is received. I'd said you are talking another 6 months to a year with this process.

I personally already have a letter from KBC saying the terms of the agreement "were clear and concise", that the "language was plain and unambiguous, not technical or difficult to understand" and also that "KBC took all steps to ensure you were notice that the request would amend terms of the mortgage agreement". Finally it says the Fixed Rate instruction "did not provide for a reversion to the variable tracker rate".

With this in mind I am probably wasting my time going to request another complaint with KBC and go straight to the FSO with this old response. What I am waiting for is a letter from KBC saying the Central Bank review was unsuccessful. I spoke to KBC about this and I knew a lot more information than they did on the CB meeting yesterday but they confirmed they feel any response is months away.
 

Lightening

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I thought I heard that the CB have given them till end of their mind to change their stance. "Come back at the end of the month if you change your mind". If they don't play ball CB has requested they the bank write to all customers that they are deemed as "not impacted". You can then take it to the ombudsman/court.

Anyone that is not included in the review and think they should be can write a complaint letter to the bank to get a response either way.
 

DamC82

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155
In 2006/2007 didn't IIB only have two options ? You either fixed or took a tracker. I don't think there was another SVR apart from the REFI rate ,or was there? I can find no evidence of one in my files
 

Sanparom

Frequent Poster
Messages
97
Yes, Dam and that is my issue. In my contract, it says that at the end of my fixed term, the prevailing variable rate (tracker) would apply, but it didn't. I got those letters trying to convince me to fix again.

I'm dubious if this whole situation definitely only applies to people who originally had a tracker and had it taken away.

I'm yet to find out if I'm in the review.
 

Wonder

Registered User
Messages
37
Can't believe Brendan burgess on Clare Byron live saying that what the banks have done is not criminal I am so angry u had no right u have not seen all contracts or all paper work or heard the lies that kbc the bank I'm dealing with have told me.
 

Lightening

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319
Did you email them? You should get a response within 48hrs. They will confirm if you're within the review. BTW I am in the same position albeit a 2007 account and we are in the review.. I'm not optimistic though it's interesting and frustrating at the same time.
The now infamous communication which states that all fixed roll onto trackers is at the time we took out our mortgage, however kbc say we are in the review as our first loan offer contained a capped tracker.. unfortunately we didn't sign it and went with fixed. Costly error
Hi DamC82

I don't believe you are in the review because you were offered a capped tracker.

I believe its the timing of your contract, you are in the review because your fixed rate said;

"At the end of the fixed rate the " Lenders prevailing variable rate" will apply. (no Standard Variable Rate at the time). It was confirmed by Padraic on 6 o'clock news yesterday that the Standard Variable Rate was the tracker. In other words there was no Standard Variable Rate, the Lenders prevailing variable rate was the Tracker.

We know that KBC rolled X amount (I believe to be 601) of these very same contracts back to the tracker in 2010. I believe these accounts are the ones that Verbraeken mentioned when he was in front of the Oireactas a few weeks ago when he said "KBC had done more than the other banks in 2010 in other words they rolled those accounts back to trackers when the other banks with the "prevailing variable" didn't )

There are obviously various reasons why some people didn't "roll to tracker"and this is where the gloves are off! Padraic believes the amount of accounts effected are 26,000 (all banks) plus and I believe this is where the argument is at the moment.

However, they cannot have one rule for those 601 accounts and not apply this approach to the others.

There could be reasons why KBC did not roll you to the tracker, maybe other arrangements were made after 2010 on the accounts where they told you you would move to the Standard Variable Rate (SVR) but this may be down to the individual accounts to sort. (example the cohort that they have said are not impacted i.e. went onto interest only and they specifically stated that you would lose the tracker, or the Fixed Rate Agreement where you would revert to the Standard Variable Rate.
 

peemac

Frequent Poster
Messages
639
Can't believe Brendan burgess on Clare Byron live saying that what the banks have done is not criminal I am so angry u had no right u have not seen all contracts or all paper work or heard the lies that kbc the bank I'm dealing with have told me.
The a big difference in saying "the banks are criminal" in a by the by way and stating it as a fact on national media.

If you can show actual criminality and say where and when and which part of criminal law, then you'd be able to say it.

The banks found they were very lucky with wording and pushed that to the nth degree to the detriment of their customers and it was against banking and consumer code which they must follow. But whilst I'm no legal expert, i can't see any criminal case aginst them.

Certainly the street phrase "criminal" in describing their behaviour would apply, but not in the legal sense - and when you are broadcasting on national media and saying something against banks with the best legal teams in the country, you pick your words very carefully.
 

Sanparom

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Messages
97
I received reply from KBC today saying that I'm not part of the review. I'm reluctant to just let things drop though. I know what my contract said and it definitely said that I would go on to tracker (prevailing variable rate) after fixed rate, but this was not offered to me. I understand Brendan's argument, that I never actually had a tracker to lose, but they did not keep to their promise in my contract of rolling me straight on to the tracker. I must contact Padraic Kissane and see if there's any scope for movement on this.
 

peemac

Frequent Poster
Messages
639
I received reply from KBC today saying that I'm not part of the review. I'm reluctant to just let things drop though. I know what my contract said and it definitely said that I would go on to tracker (prevailing variable rate) after fixed rate, but this was not offered to me. I understand Brendan's argument, that I never actually had a tracker to lose, but they did not keep to their promise in my contract of rolling me straight on to the tracker. I must contact Padraic Kissane and see if there's any scope for movement on this.
Unless you have the word "tracker" or xx% above european Refi rate written in your main contract, then I can't see any case. For me and others, the mortgage was taken out as a tracker. It was written in black and white in the contract. and at the time when we went onto fixed and told that it would revert to the homeloan variable rate, we assumed (rightly so imo) that it would revert to the variable rate that we had signed up to and which was written in our contract - "xx% above ECB refi rate".

What most people are fight for is the return to the contracted rate in the original mortgage document that is very clearly stated that it is a variable rate at xx% above the ecb refi rate "for the life of the mortgage". The three year fixed instruction should only have amended he document for the three years.
 

raglan

Frequent Poster
Messages
75
Hi Peemac,

Am with KBC too. Tracker was written in special conditions of my mortgage contract. On the mortgage fixed rate form I signed ( which was very poor quality and barely legible) it stated that fixed term effective from 1st Aug 2006, thereafter reverting to "company's standard variable rate." Revert means to "return to" so I assumed go back to my tracker rate after fixed period finished.The word variable was always used throughout my contract and it was told to me by broker that it was a tracker as in special conditions it states how it would follow ecb rates for life of loan. Padraic in his citywest talk stated that KBC didn't even have a SVR at that time so what does exactly does "company" mean here?
 
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