KBC KBC - lost tracker

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DebtForever

Guest
I was listening to Charlie Weston last night on the radio. I had a tracker and I am now on a variable as I signed a fxed rate contract for 5 years. I thought I would go back on a tracker after the 5 years but I was told no, because I signed a fixed rate for 5 years and by doing so I go back on the Companies's variable rate rather than a tracker rate.

Charlie suggested independent financial advisors that might look at a specific case? where is the best place to find these or get a listing of them.

Do they charge much?
 

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
38,131
I had a tracker and I am now on a variable as I signed a fxed rate contract for 5 years. I thought I would go back on a tracker after the 5 years but I was told no, because I signed a fixed rate for
When you signed for the fixed rate, you signed a Fixed Rate Authority. Read the wording on that. If you don't have it, get a copy of it from KBC.

I have seen a few KBC cases, and their Fixed Rate Authorities were quite clear about the implications of fixing.
 
D

DebtForever

Guest
It states on the Fixed rate instructions "thereafter reverting to company's standard variable rate"

However on the original contract it states "no more than 1.25% over ECB REFI rate" It also states on the letter of offer that is a variable rate.

Do I have a case to agrue that no distinction is made between tracker and variable rate? It did not state on Fixed rate I was loosing it?

How would a customer know the difference between company standard variable rate and variable insterest rate?

Thanks for your replies.
 

peteb

Frequent Poster
Messages
1,650
I wouldn't think so. Its quite apparent from the line you've quoted that you would have moved to the standard variable rate.

It isn't too far a stretch to gather that the company standard variable rate and variable interest rate are the same thing.
 
D

DebtForever

Guest
That would be my point of argument:

What is the difference between
(a) Company's standard variable rate
and
(b)"letter of offer is variable interest rate"

Maybe I am clutching at straws.

It does also state at the bottom of the Fixed rate instructions
"blah blah seek financial advice"
 

peteb

Frequent Poster
Messages
1,650
it isn't a sufficiently strong argument for it be a poiint. The fact is says variable is clear. Also it advised you to seek advise before changing and that knocks you clean out of the ball park! Home run to KBC methinks.
 
D

DebtForever

Guest
Ok.... Thanks for your replies. I will struggle on.
 

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
38,131
It states on the Fixed rate instructions "thereafter reverting to company's standard variable rate"

However on the original contract it states "no more than 1.25% over ECB REFI rate" It also states on the letter of offer that is a variable rate.

Do I have a case to agrue that no distinction is made between tracker and variable rate? It did not state on Fixed rate I was loosing it?
It's very clear to me and to peteb and most users of askaboutmoney that a SVR is not a tracker.

I am not sure that it is crystal clear from the documents you quoted.

You were told you were on a variable rate which would not exceed 1.25% above ECB.

You were told that when the fixed rate expired, you would be on the Standard Variable Rate.

If you did not realise at the time that you would be losing your tracker and that the SVR could not exceed 1.25% above the ECB rate, then you have grounds for complaint.

If I had been KBC writing the Fixed Rate Instruction I would have said:

"On completion of the fixed term, you will no longer have the price promise you were given in the original mortgage offer. Instead you will be put onto the Standard Variable Rate"

If you genuinely did not know the risk you were taking, then you should make a complaint.


Brendan
 

Niamh1977

Registered User
Messages
1
I also lost my tracker with KBC

Hi There

I totally understand what you're going through, and I think it's robbery what KBC have done to some of their clients. I have a home mortgage plus a buy to let in the city center that i bought for my pension. I bought at the height of the boom both mortgages total to 540 euros. When I lost my job last year, and went into KBC to express my concerns, only then the advisors pulled out my contract and told me that 2 of my mortgages were originally on a tracker mortgage. I was SICK , as both of my mortgages have an interest rate of 5% and has caused me extreme worry, depression and anxity.

I told him he couldnt of been right, because all along I was always checking the front fact page of the mortgage offer where all your MAIN points are, terms, lenght, amount rates, and type of mortgage and KBC mortgage offer reads VARIABLE, not TRACKER VARIABLE, now how would a consumer know the differance.

As I thought i was on a tracker rate I fixed both of them 3 years ago, and have just come out of the fix rates. But even when you fix them are banks not obliged to point out to you that you're on a tracker, their paper work should it not read in black and white THIS IS A TRACKER RATE, the fix rate form stated nothing, I have actually kept all my paper work from KBC for years now and I have NOTHING in any paper work, OR the mortgage statements that you receive that the mortgage is a tracker.

I hired a solicitor who agreed with me, and took it to the ombudsman, and I couldnt believe the decision of the ombudsman took KBC side, he actually didnt see anything wrong what so ever to the fact that variable tracker wasnt clearly written anywhere in my paper work from kbc.

The suffering these mortgages have caused me, I did ask for the house prices to drop by 60% - I didnt borrow to have a luxury life, all I did was thinking about my future, which I had put 100k into my investment property. But now I have no option like many people, as we are stuck we cannot get out, WE CANT SELL because the banks want the balance which would be 150k in my case now, we cannot pay due to the high interest rate they have increased them again again , and lost of jobs and income.

What is the solution for people now - who want to just give it back so they can be free, that they can have a breathing space, and a life back, that is healthy with their families. I know have 2 small babies and find getting on very difficult. This country should get their act together.
 

raglan

Frequent Poster
Messages
75
KBC -lost tracker

I agree totally with Niamh and DebtForever. I too was got by KBC and their documentation. No word of tracker on it, just variable.....then the Fix rate form does nothing to highlight the implications of fixing and writes standard variable rate with no capitals etc....I know when I fixed it was probably before the Central Bank's Consumer Protection rules came in where banks had to make absolutely clear that you understood the implications and I think have to now show you calculations to show the difference in fixing. I feel KBC in my case anyway showered us with letters about their "fantastic fixed rate offers" and waited for us to fall for it, even though we never looked for these letters to be sent to us. I too went to the Ombudsman and he sided completely with KBC disregarding anything I said about the Consumer Protection Code. On another forum, people who were in the exact same position with Ulster bank a lot of them seem to have got their trackers back at the last minute before even going to the Ombudsman.
 

peteb

Frequent Poster
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1,650
Am i missig something Raglan? Your documenation didnt mention tracker but you think you should go back onto tracker?
 

raglan

Frequent Poster
Messages
75
My documentation didn't mention tracker, it said variable. However, in one of the special conditions attached to the original loan offer it stated " the home loan will not exceed ECB rate by more than 1.1%." the mortgage broker also kept calling it a tracker mortgage but all terms in the KBC documentation called it a variable mortgage.......hence why the confusion later.
 

mcaul

Frequent Poster
Messages
468
peteb & raglan -

As Raglan will know, I went through the ombudman process and also had help wording replies for a family member and the ombudman found in favour of KBC.

However the recent Bewleys commercial case regarding their lease and the fact that the ORIGINAL terms supercede any subsequent terms is very interesting.

Whilst the ombudsman decision is normally final and binding, it is possible that if you can find they made an error in legal interpretation, it can be appealed.

With variable rates and fixed rates way over the tracker rates, it may be worth getting a group together to fund a high court case against KBC. - Basically one person takes the case (which sets the precedence) and costs are paid for from a group of 10-20 people. Obviously costs don't apply if case if won.

I'll look into this and see if its something worthwhile.
 

mcaul

Frequent Poster
Messages
468
Here's the full transcript of the Bewleys case http://namawinelake.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/bewley.pdf

Whist most see the Bewleys case is to do with a commercial lease, the case is in fact about the interpretation of a contract.

In the bewleys case the judge heavily sided with the original terms of the lease and paid scant regard to any side agreements such as sub letting parts of the building.


Another aspect of the KBC or general tracker debacle is that almost all original mortgages were processed through solicitors who would have read the terms and conditions and approved for you to sign the documents whereas the fixed rate instruction which resulted in a material change in the long term costs of the mortgage were sent out without request and worded in such a way as to suggest that the bank was doing you a favour.

This I believe would be frowned upon by a judge.


So, I think for me its back to the drawing board on this, get it re-opened and see if we can get a sensible decision on it. - Thankfully my financial situation is quite strong at present, so I'll take the risk on getting a specialist to make comment on this.
 

raglan

Frequent Poster
Messages
75
Hi,

Hello mcaul , I've emailed the guy that posts here and has written articles in the press from Kissane financial services as he will look at different peoples situations and take them on for a fee if they have a winning chance. But basically I just wanted to know is if the case was brought to ombudsman already is that it, or can anything else be done to fight case? Do you have to bring it to high court within a certain time period of ombudmans result? The ombudsman gave same decision to about 3 of us at this stage , but it is very disheartening when you see other banks like ulster and boi returning their customers to trackers. I feel we were completely Lynched by KBC and their shady actions of sending unsolicited letters to us to encourage us to sign. I will update with any info here in due course if I get any.
 

peteb

Frequent Poster
Messages
1,650
Being one of those Ulster Bank customers that got their tracker back, the situations are not like for like.
 

MOD

Registered User
Messages
6
I think mcaul has a good point about one person taking a test case and being supported financially by others in a similar situation....it's very difficult for an individual to take on the big institutions with their financial power to get the best legal teams to represent them...winning a test case could be a win for so many people who have been stripped of their tracker rates
 
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