KBC KBC before the Finance Committee on 6th February

shnethb

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Thats nonsense, they have completed the review and written to everyone affected.
I got the Jan 5th included and impacted letter. called twice last week but both times were told there was no update on my account and they hope to have all accounts / cases review by march. not sure what that means for me.
 

gnf_ireland

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Mr. Wim Verbraeken:We made it very clear to our brokers that, as of a certain date, 11 February, the offer would no longer stand. I believe we could reasonably have expected that brokers would comply with that and inform their customers correctly.

Has anyone's broker confirmed how this was communicated to them and how they would normally inform customers of this type of update?

My offer letter was 20th Feb.
So I would assume the application date is prior to the 11th February in that case?

they received my application on 20th of Feb 08
if they hold firm on the dates, its likely the application was initially discussed prior to 11th February, and there is an onus on the broker to inform you of the changing circumstance on 11th February before the application was made? Have you any comments from the broker on this scenario
 

Jazzer1

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I think you like me wll have your work cut out Jazzer.
You should get your letter of complaint in as soon as possible, as somebody alluded to above the comittee are running out of steam and cases like ours are the dreggs im afraid...
Rang the Broker who sold me the mortgage he still had my file and told me that someone from i.i.b signed off on my mortgage on the 14/02/08 he also has the application form that I signed on the 23rd of Jan. Surely that will help me?.
 

DamC82

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I got the Jan 5th included and impacted letter. called twice last week but both times were told there was no update on my account and they hope to have all accounts / cases review by march. not sure what that means for me.
Apologies, I didnt realise you got the impacted letter. Thats the biggest thing though.
 

DamC82

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Rang the Broker who sold me the mortgage he still had my file and told me that someone from i.i.b signed off on my mortgage on the 14/02/08 he also has the application form that I signed on the 23rd of Jan. Surely that will help me?.
It should you'd imagine, but who knows..fingers crossed
 

Jazzer1

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143
It should you'd imagine, but who knows..fingers crossed
I also read through the oireachtas report and Dara Deering stated that kbc was still offering trackers to new customers up till 08 so why is the 11th Feb a cut off point if they were still offering the product after that date.
 

Jazzer1

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Mr. Wim Verbraeken:We made it very clear to our brokers that, as of a certain date, 11 February, the offer would no longer stand. I believe we could reasonably have expected that brokers would comply with that and inform their customers correctly.

Has anyone's broker confirmed how this was communicated to them and how they would normally inform customers of this type of update?


So I would assume the application date is prior to the 11th February in that case?


if they hold firm on the dates, its likely the application was initially discussed prior to 11th February, and there is an onus on the broker to inform you of the changing circumstance on 11th February before the application was made? Have you any comments from the broker on this scenario
My broker told me today that my application was signed off/approved on 14 Feb 08 by iib home loans. he has the form with someones name on it and he send it to me as well as a copy of the application form dated late Jan 08
 
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gnf_ireland

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My broker told me today that my application was signed off/approved on 14 Feb 08 by iib home loans he has the form with someone name on it and he has send it to me as well as a copy of the application form dated late Jan 08
Being realistic, if your application was dated January 08 and was signed off/approved on 14th February 2008, you need to get KBC to confirm what date the application was received. It is highly unlikely it was after 11th February as I doubt any bank are that efficient
So if KBC are basing it on application date, and your application was received by them before 11th February 2008, your application was made before the flyer was withdrawn. I would argue you fall within the dates when the flyer was active and you applied on that basis.
I think this will be an example of the fringe cases KBC will deal with, given the dates involved. You need to determine what date KBC received the application
Carefully worded complaint to KBC asap, complete with copies of the forms signed by you and the 14th February date signed by IIB, and clearly state the flyer was active (as agreed by KBC at the Oireachtas committee - and include extracts from the transcript). You get one proper shot at this - make it count !
 

Jazzer1

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143
Being realistic, if your application was dated January 08 and was signed off/approved on 14th February 2008, you need to get KBC to confirm what date the application was received. It is highly unlikely it was after 11th February as I doubt any bank are that efficient
So if KBC are basing it on application date, and your application was received by them before 11th February 2008, your application was made before the flyer was withdrawn. I would argue you fall within the dates when the flyer was active and you applied on that basis.
I think this will be an example of the fringe cases KBC will deal with, given the dates involved. You need to determine what date KBC received the application
Carefully worded complaint to KBC asap, complete with copies of the forms signed by you and the 14th February date signed by IIB, and clearly state the flyer was active (as agreed by KBC at the Oireachtas committee - and include extracts from the transcript). You get one proper shot at this - make it count !
KBC have said that they received my application on the 21st Feb 08. They send out my loan offer letter on 1st march but called it back because the fixed interest rate for 2 years was wrong and they had to amend it. They never amended anything that time to say that the info the Broker had that time was invaild
 

gnf_ireland

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KBC have said that they received my application on the 21st Feb 08. They send out my loan offer letter on 1st march but called it back
told me that someone from i.i.b signed off on my mortgage on the 14/02/08 he also has the application form that I signed on the 23rd of Jan.
Clear inconsistency from KBC. Do you have it in writing that they received on 21st February and issued on 1st March?
Then get the copies from the broker - send them to them as a formal complaint that you are being misled and lied to - and see what they come back with. As I said, be very careful with the wording and make sure you get the complaint right first time !
 

Jazzer1

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143
Clear inconsistency from KBC. Do you have it in writing that they received on 21st February and issued on 1st March?
Then get the copies from the broker - send them to them as a formal complaint that you are being misled and lied to - and see what they come back with. As I said, be very careful with the wording and make sure you get the complaint right first time !
No haven't it in writing but kbc told me that today and my Broker confirmed it when I rang him. The Broker is sending everything out everything to me. Would it be the norm that they would approved it before application went it?.
 

gnf_ireland

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Would it be the norm that they would approved it before application went it?.
Maybe approval in principle, but unlikely the letter of offer would have been issued.
Guess you need to see all the paperwork (with dates) and then decide the next steps

Did your broker mention anything about the withdrawn of the flyer and correspondence he received from IIB/KBC at the time ?
 

Jazzer1

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143
Maybe approval in principle, but unlikely the letter of offer would have been issued.
Guess you need to see all the paperwork (with dates) and then decide the next steps

Did your broker mention anything about the withdrawn of the flyer and correspondence he received from IIB/KBC at the time ?
He said at that time he was selling all iib mortgages the same way with reverting to a tracker rate when your fixed term expired. He said he can't remember the flyer being pulled put he had sold tracker rates in march and april of 08
 

gnf_ireland

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He said he can't remember the flyer being pulled put he had sold tracker rates in march and april of 08
This is irrelevant. Trackers were still being sold at the time so this is perfectly acceptable
Your case is about fixed going to the "prevailing variable rate" and the 'concession' from KBC that this was a tracker based on the flyer. I use the word concession here as its not clear cut and its likely the CB pushed them to accept the flyer as 'contractual'

Its amazing how a broker who was selling all IIB mortgages should not remember something as important as the bank saying that fixed customers no longer defaulted back onto a tracker when finished. So I am guessing either selective memory OR the banks communication may have been weak. I think it would be great for you guys on the fringes of those dates to get your hands on that communication from IIB to see what the wording was like
 

Jazzer1

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Thanks gnf ireland for the advice...I'll get on to that tomorrow. I honestly think that the communication from iib to the brokers was very weak.my broker was more than happy to help me out and send me out all documents. I'll ring him again tomorrow to see if he can dig up anything on the expiry of the flyer.
 

gnf_ireland

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I honestly think that the communication from iib to the brokers was very weak.
Ignore what you think - it is irrelevant !
If you can prove this, it is likely to help you also
Maybe ask KBC for it formally via some sort of data request.... At least if they refuse you, you have that in your back pocket as well (i.e. what are they hiding given they could tell the Oireachtas committee the date it was issued but not give an impacted customer the contents of it)
 
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