gnf_ireland
Registered User
- Messages
- 1,441
Because no one can tell what products will be available in the future and they were basically offering the commerical products available at that point in time.I'm really just after a reason as to why SVR wasn't used but word prevailing was used. There is a reason but no one will explain it or can explain it.
I am not as convinced. The legal teams write contracts and they are not fool proof. If they were, we would not be having these conversationsThe bank surely knows why this was used in contracts.
What does your contract say?
It is likely that it says "Fixed rate rolling onto SVR"
Despite that, the Central Bank has persuaded KBC to give trackers to people because a flyer had been sent to brokers saying that that those who fixed would roll onto trackers.
No one appears to have been asked if they checked their contract.
No one appears to have asked KBC to correct their contract to point out that they should be rolling onto trackers.
No one got an email from KBC or their broker pointing out that they would be rolling onto trackers.
Brendan
SVR, LTR or MVR are not mentioned in the IIB Booklet and there are differences between all three of the products you mention in terms of rate being charged to customers depending on circumstance. Only Fixed, Variable or Tracker are referenced in the booklet. It was KBC themselves who discussed and referenced the booklet during the finance committee meeting. They also stated that where there was/is confusion or ambiguity with the contract/booklet they would tend to favour the customer.No it was not superseded by the SVR. The SVR is just an instance of the variable rate defined in the booklet.
This is no different to LTV rate, MVR (Managed Variable Rate) or any other marketting term used to define the current variable rate offered to customers. SVR does not supercede variable rate - it is a variable rate
The simple answer here is there is no simple answer. You will need to trawl through the various discussions on it to find out the various tranches effected by each bank - and they are all different. You can normally find the numbers effected as well by each traunch.
For example, some customers had "for the lifetime of their mortgage" stated in their home loan agreement
Others were forced off their trackers when they had to restructure or go interest only for a period of time
Some BOI staff members were issued an internal memo
Some where issued letters which the banks now claim are in error
Lots of different reasons - only 625 (I think) are impacted by the KBC flyer reason.
If your contract clearly stated you were entitled to a tracker at the end of the fixed period, or you were entitled to a tracker mortgage for the lifetime of the homeloan, then this is a very valid reason to be included. I would be amazed if anyone with that text is not included at this stage, given the large push from the central bank
There are large discussions within sets of customers within certain banks around what the prevailing variable rate, but most of these that apply relate to banks which did not have a variable rate at the time and were selling trackers only. There is a case (however light) that they had reason to believe that the prevailing variable rate was a tracker as the bank offered no other variable based mortgage at the time.
For a bank which offered both variable rate mortgages and tracker mortgages, you may have difficulty in convincing KBC or the FSO that you understood that "prevailing variable rate" meant tracker rate, and it was their fault that is what you understood it to be. However, if you have correspondence to this effect with KBC it may change the balance in your favour
Simple short answer to your question is - lots of reasons people are impacted, different between each of the banks and you cannot assume what applies to one bank applies to another. Suggest you go through all the KBC related threads to see if there is anything that resonates with you personally. Good luck
And I think this is the big problem with all of this, it is all unclear.But as highlighted before, which is a good point, it doesn't state what the tracker details will in terms of % etc.
I've had mortgages since 1988 - both here and UK and the variable rate always moved with changes in the Central Bank of Ireland rate / Bank of England rate and since the ecb took over the ECB rate.@peemac I am asking u this question is a variable rate that moves in line with the ECB rate a SVR rate or a tracker variable. The rate was in line with ecb .25....
And this is why you pay a solicitor to review the contract for you as well. I wonder what roles the solicitors have in this areaNow maybe we are when you look at contracts and stuff and how no one read them or understood them but how many ordinary folk who don't deal with them do??
Interesting - what does the broker or bank say about this letter? This does put you in a slightly different scenario as you queried the contact and got feedback from someone. If the broker did this without talking to KBC then its a different matter !I have a signed letter from a broker stating that a tracker rate will be available if they decide to fix from the drawdown. This is before the flier dates.
Fair enough - now I suggest you work out how you translate this into something that works for you. I cannot offer any suggestions as I don't see the case - but then again others such as P Kissane may be able to see it, as they are much closer to the detail. Good luck in your attempts to make it work for you !SVR, LTR or MVR are not mentioned in the IIB Booklet and there are differences between all three of the products you mention in terms of rate being charged to customers depending on circumstance. Only Fixed, Variable or Tracker are referenced in the booklet. It was KBC themselves who discussed and referenced the booklet during the finance committee meeting. They also stated that where there was/is confusion or ambiguity with the contract/booklet they would tend to favour the customer.
The famous flier in itself is unclear, the flier states all fixed rates on expiry will roll to the tracker rates, it doesn’t state all applications as of the date of the flier will roll to the tracker rates
Even though I don’t like what you have to say, it’s also hard to find arguments with your comments. Are you a barrister by any chance?Yes a lot of the rules are being written after the fact, and no doubt with the benefit of hindsight.
I also wonder how many customers were genuinely aware of the flyer when they made the mortgage application, and are using this retrospectively to their advantage. Reading through a lot of the conversations on here over the last while, a lot of customers appear to be retrospectively reading their mortgage contracts to find something which may work in their favour. Not that I blame anyone for doing this of course, but do think it works both ways
The harsh reality on all of this is most people, like today, were not interested in rates or anything else, but focused on how much money they could borrow to buy the house. With 100% mortgages and the likes, it was all about getting the maximum amount of money for a lot of people rather than the interest rate they paid. There was not much difference between variable and tracker rates back then.
If you ask people getting mortgages today, what they focus on - the same answer probably still exists. Who will give me the money I need to buy the house rather than the rate they are being asked to pay. 0.1% between two banks is not material enough for a lot of people !
Not that I blame any customer on this, its just hard to be on the fringes and not getting the 'lift' they hoped for. So near and yet so far - but they are right to fight their case as best they can !
I think the large blocks of people being impacted by generic reasons are probably coming to an end on this. The banks and CB have clearly been in discussion on this, and its likely they will agree that 'sufficient' progress has been made. You are now talking about fringe cases around the edges and how you can make a particular judgement apply to you.I think its so open and would pull in so many people banks would implode
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?