Yes this could be the case - however going through the transcript of the meeting at the OC yesterday I noted some important comments:
Wim (CEO) said - "We welcome evidence from people who have information specific to their case"
and then was asked: "If broker tells you that you are going to roll onto a tracker, that would be part of your decision?" to which CEO replied "Yes we agreed this with CB".
Surely a letter from your broker telling you that you can roll to a tracker is a prime example of this.
I think the date the letter of offer was issued (and accepted/signed) will also be critical here.There's definitely an arguable case for those who applied close to Nov 06 and drew down after Nov 06. - I'd be asking the solicitors who did the purchase for a look through your files to see timelines and if there's anything you have nissed that would back up your argument
The broker here assumed the same products would be available when the fixed rate expired. There was no guarantee of this, and there is no rate specified. It is a very generic statement, and I seriously doubt you will get any joy here. Realistically any 'complaint' would be with the broker and if I am being honest I cannot see how that statement implicate them. The only wording change that would make sense with the benefit of hindsight is "or a tracker rate, if available"However they have a letter from their broker (called a Reasons Why Mortgage Letter) confirming the following:
"Should you decide to choose fixed rate at the beginning of your mortgage, you will have choice of another fixed rate when this expires or you can choose a variable or a tracker rate"
and then was asked: "If broker tells you that you are going to roll onto a tracker, that would be part of your decision?" to which CEO replied "Yes we agreed this with CB".
Surely a letter from your broker telling you that you can roll to a tracker is a prime example of this.
I had a dispute with KBC on a totally different topic a while back. I had sent them an email, asking them a very specific question, which they never answered. My argument was the fact they did not answer the specific question (1 out of 3 asked), meant they were trying to hide something from me or mislead me in the process. Their position was different - they never answered the question.What constitues evidence in KBCs book?
gnf_ireland,
I think it's interesting what Michael mcgrath said last night, in relation to customers who
who met with brokers in Feb08 and were introduced to the flyer, therefore having an expectation to roll onto a tracker on expiry from fixed rate. If these customers were led to believe that the flyer was valid up until signing the mortgage contract, then retrospectively, the flyer could be valid.
This is encouraging from our perspective. We met broker in Feb 08, when flyer was active. We made a formal application to kbc in April based on our Feb discussions with broker. We signed mortgage contract in may 08, fixed 5 year.
The flyer was issued to brokers stating that any customer who rolls off a fixed rate would automatically move to a tracker rate.This may be a stupid question, but can anyone tell me why KBC only seem to be looking at accounts in the period when the flyer was doing the rounds, but the flyer doesn't apply to other banks and they are still offering redress and compensation? Surely KBC should be forced to look at accounts outside of that timescale and ones which wouldn't have had anything to do with the flyer - maybe based on wording of contract for example. I'd love an explanation if anyone has one because I can't understand why, with KBC, the emphasis is only being put on the flyer.
Very good points made there. We applied to kbc in march 08, through our broker, in light of what had been discussed in February. Discussions in February, flyer etc where the motivation for choosing a fixed rate with iib at the time. By the time we signed the paper work it was may 08, We were still under the impression that the flyer was active, our broker never said it was expired.Ok, but lets play devils advocate here. When KBC pulled the flier, how did they do this? Did they simply not issue any more or did they circulate a notice to all brokers that the contents of the flier was no longer valid? Did they alert brokers to the withdrawl of the flier? If they did, then the onus is on the broker to alert the customer accordingly? I don't know the answer, but since they have very specific dates, I would imagine there was some sort of communication they can reference here.
Meeting with a broker and them telling you something does not constitute an offer from KBC. Was the formal application made in April with the same broker? Does the broker have any written communication around discussing the flier?
If I go into a shop today to ask about something and have a conversation around it and leave. Then if I go back 2 months later, what is my expectations around the initial discussion? Things change, and particularly in early-mid 2008 around banking side. The wheels were coming off the wagon at that stage and Bear Stearns etc had just been bailed out.
But of course, I have no idea what your home loan agreement says - I am guessing it would be ambiguios at best.
By all means, put your case together, but I am guessing you will have a very tough fight on your hands. Its very easy for Michael McGrath to ask about this, but this is no guarantee it will be considered by KBC.
in relation to customers who met with brokers in Feb08 and were introduced to the flyer, therefore having an expectation to roll onto a tracker on expiry from fixed rate. If these customers were led to believe that the flyer was valid up until signing the mortgage contract, then retrospectively, the flyer could be valid.
We made a formal application to kbc in April
The dates are a bit inconsistent here - I think you need to be 100% clear when you raise your complaint to KBC that you are crystal clear on the timelines. Any ambiguity here will be used against you. The closer you are to the February date strengthens your case - obviously.We applied to kbc in march 08
And this may be a different matter. Is the issue that the broker choose not to tell you it had expired, or made a mistake in that it had expired and they were not aware of it. All of the blame here may not have been with KBC?our broker never said it was expired
This is something you will need to convince KBC at some point. Initial application with no rate specified, but decided in April to go fixed rateApplication sent to kbc in march 08 with no rate specified. Then in April the broker notified kbc that we have decided on a fixed rate.
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