IT Contractor - LTD Company - Do I need Accountant

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Mahons

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Hi Folks,

I've been an IT contractor for 2 years now working as a LTD company and I'm wondering if I need an accountant anymore. I don't see the value in paying him over 1k to do very little in my eyes.

I use Payback software to work out my Salary/PRSI/PAYE calculations each month, I process my P30 each month via ROS and I've recently filed my own P35 using Payback figures.

I also process my own VAT returns via ROS bi-monthly. Really, my accountant only gives me a P&L at the end of each year - which always works out the same as a report I can generate from QuickBooks where I keep my accounts details.

I guess my question is Do I have a legal requirement to get an Accountant to sign off on my books? I know I have to send my accounts to the CRO a B1 form I think which I haven't done before but really how hard can it be - I only have 12 invoices and minimal expenses!

Regards,

Mahons
 
Mahons said:
Hi Folks,

I've been an IT contractor for 2 years now working as a LTD company and I'm wondering if I need an accountant anymore. I don't see the value in paying him over 1k to do very little in my eyes.

I use Payback software to work out my Salary/PRSI/PAYE calculations each month, I process my P30 each month via ROS and I've recently filed my own P35 using Payback figures.

I also process my own VAT returns via ROS bi-monthly. Really, my accountant only gives me a P&L at the end of each year - which always works out the same as a report I can generate from QuickBooks where I keep my accounts details.


I guess my question is Do I have a legal requirement to get an Accountant to sign off on my books? I know I have to send my accounts to the CRO a B1 form I think which I haven't done before but really how hard can it be - I only have 12 invoices and minimal expenses!

Regards,

Mahons
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You do not need an accountant but if you are late for company office you will need accounts audited., could become costly. the company office will take no excuses for being late and if accounts are not in proper format and signed they will send them back to you. Also if looking for a bank loan bank will unlikely just accept you set of accounts with out accounting letter
 
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remember you are getting a tax deduction for the 1000 fee.

CRO is a bit of a nightmare if there is any filing problems ,you could always file months early so as to have time to rectify matters if there is a problem.
They have some online facilities but not great

Does your accountant not file your corporation tax returns,does he give you any tax advice,does he keep you up todate with changes in tax etc that effect you.
If you ditch your accountant if you have a problem where will you go
For peace of mind generally I would say stick with the accountant ,thats if youre still working
 
Stick with him. However if the accounts are that simple look for a reduction in the fee.
 
I would say that it is hard to expect anyone to do statutory limited company accounts ( to standards expected by institutes practice review officer ) , CT returns CRO returns and whatever other incidental work might arise ( the Director's F11 for example) for less than €1,000+VAT. However one could negotiate on basis that provided the owner/director does x,y & z then the fee would not exceed a certain amount.
 
papervalue said:
You do not need an accountant but if you are late for company office you will need accounts audited., could become costly. the company office will take no excuses for being late and if accounts are not in proper format and signed they will send them back to you. Also if looking for a bank loan bank will unlikely just accept you set of accounts with out accounting letter
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And if you are claiming audit exemption, you have to minute that at a board meeting and, as said above, the Annual Returns *must* be filed on time for the year in question and the previous year. There may be other requirements (apart from the normal exemption limits) that I'm not aware of (or, more importantly, that you are not aware of).

I'd be very slow to discharge your accountant and would agree with the advice to try to renegotiate the fee somewhat and, if that's not possible, talk to other accountants to get an estimate to see if it's lower. It may not be possible to get these services for less than €1,000.
 
I'm in pretty much te same boat as you OP.
I'd say stick with him, I know that I've found it great peace of mind to be able to just pick up the phone and call my accountant with any query I have. I do most returns myself but if there's anything I'm unsure of I know the correct advice is only a phone call away.
 
Have to agree, use professional assistance to get set up. I hate accounts and am perfectly happy to pay a management company and their fees to do it all for me. Including what I can and cannot expense.

As usual on this site people saying you can do it yourself cheaper ( painting, accounts, h&S, fixing cars, hair cutting etc etc) maybe you can but I very much doubt you can do any of these things as well, as quickly and as efficiently as an expert can.

Monday rant over

( CXCgolbal have downloadable advice sheets on expenses)
And I have no connection other than as a satisfied client.
 
All that filing you do yourself, my accountant does for me. So maybe the service you're getting isn't great. Maybe shop around.
 
camel said:
All that filing you do yourself, my accountant does for me. So maybe the service you're getting isn't great. Maybe shop around.
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Some people do their own VAT and PAYE/PRSI, others have it done for them, we have clients in both spheres. Just because the accountant does not do it for the OP does not mean the service he gives for what he does do is not good.
 
My understanding is that the directors are responsilbe to do the final accounts for the company.

A third party accountant is only required if you need your accounts audited.

So, if you are audit exempt and you know exactly what you are doing, they I don't think you need an accountant.

P.S. The accountants may tell you otherwise...
 
Thanks for all the responses.

I'm still in two minds but I think I'll try the negotiate route and see how I get on.
 
PeterSellers said:
So, if you are audit exempt and you know exactly what you are doing, they I don't think you need an accountant.

P.S. The accountants may tell you otherwise...
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That's the rub. OP seems to have a good handle on the ongoing obligations, like VAT returns etc. But, does s/he know about how to validly claim the audit exemption and what corporate documents/processes are needed to do this? I don't know the answer to this but, in my experience, things like corporate governance and proper account-keeping and filing have numerous formal requirements. Each requirement in and of itself is not complicated but it's a matter of being sure of knowing what you are doing - not knowing what you don't know can be the problem.
 
I was in a similar situation as yourself. I used to dump receipts, invoices and statements on my accountants desk, which meant him charging me all these hours for sorting out my mess.

Then a couple of years ago I started using accounts software. At year end I produced my own balance sheet, bank recs, P&L etc. and went to the accountant with all the reports. He compared with the previous years balance sheet (to make sure balances brought forward was correct) and told me he'd get back to me.

I was shocked when the fee was *still* in the region of €3k - I'm not quite sure where all that time was spent, as the figures in the balance sheet he submitted was the same one that I'd handed him. And he wouldn't negotiate the price (my fault really for not checking the cost before handing him the work)

Anyway, I shopped around, and found a book-keeping company who I hand my reports to at the end of the year, and he signs them off and submits them for me. And the cost is *substantially* less.

ROS is a god-send. Being able to file VAT returns, P30, and P35 on-line means that by the end of the year the only additional cheque I have to write is corporation tax, and perhaps a small balancing amount on P35 or VAT.

If you need professional accountancy/taxation advise, then perhaps you'll be happier sticking with an accountant. But once my business was up and running and I understood how personal taxation and expenses operated, I ended up making one phonecall a year to the book-keepers to tell them I'm emailing over my returns for sign-off.
 
PeterSellers said:
My understanding is that the directors are responsilbe to do the final accounts for the company.

A third party accountant is only required if you need your accounts audited.

So, if you are audit exempt and you know exactly what you are doing, they I don't think you need an accountant.

P.S. The accountants may tell you otherwise...
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You are correct. I would also emphasise the boldfaced part.

P.S. As an accountant/auditor :). This is also a good analogy , I think.
 
TonyFitz said:
I was in a similar situation as yourself. I used to dump receipts, invoices and statements on my accountants desk, which meant him charging me all these hours for sorting out my mess. etc

Tony I can assure you that over a 3-5 year period if I (and I am sure the other regular accountant contributors) done your accounts I would more than save you the price of my fees. There are over 3,500 sections of the taxes acts. Each section has numerous sub-sections. The CRO/ODCE regulations are severe and non compliance is expensive. People either overclaim or under claim their allowances/expenses.
Where people go wrong is that they allow their accountants to walk all over them. They dont question them. They dont fully utilise them. They allow them to overcharge. Shop around. Your accountant should:
Be affordable but not too cheap.
Be strong but approachable.
Be proactive
Be modern - IT and general organisation
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IMO I would not feel confident dealing with people that undervalue their own worth.
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In my line of work, someone's 'worth' (or rather 'rate of pay') is determined by the market.

I have no problem paying less for something, especially if the quality is the same or (often is the case) actually better.
 
Mahons said:
...my question is Do I have a legal requirement to get an Accountant to sign off on my books?
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Like OP, I do everything myself through ROS during the year, and my accountant checks all & then calculates & completes the year-end reports. However, he doesn't sign anything, and his TAIN number isn't on anything. And he told me only the directors sign the year-end reports, which is fair enough. So, imo there is no legal requirement for a signoff.

But what do others think, should I insist on a physical sign-off ? I suppose having an invoice from him will prove that he did them ?

OP - I'd pay an accountant for 1 more year to go through all the B1s, Form 11, CT1 etc. and then if you're confident go the diy route.
 
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