Is it possible to get reliable ethical appliances?

[sid]

Hi there

Am trying to do the decent thing and buy my kitchen appliances from the most ethical companies. According to [broken link removed] (Good Shopping Guide), Whirlpool gets a 4 out of 5 start rating, Miele, Belling, Baumatic & New World, get a 3 1/2 out of 5 star rating.

A lot of people say buy Bosch but they've a 3 star rating and are involved in armaments etc. They're same company as Neff & Siemens. AEG/Electrolux/Zanussi/Tricity Bendix (Electrolux / Wallenberg Family) fall down similarly on armaments etc. so that's ruled out a lot of brands easily available to the Irish consumer!!

The gooshing site is in development & all info is not yet available. I have an old hard copy of the Good Shopping Guide from 2004 which put Candy, Leisure & Stoves in the ethical list for cookers, put Candy, Hoover, Lec, Liebherr, Ocean & Proline in the ethical list for fridges & freezers etc. These were in addition to Miele, Belling, Baumatic & New World. Research is still pending for these companies currently.

Armed with that info, I started my search for a

• a 450mm (slimline) integrated dishwasher - there are 2 contenders a Whirlpool ADG550 & a Belling IDW450. Thing is, dishwashers can be notorious for reliability & I can't get any info on reliability of these. Saw horrific reviews of Baumatic, Kenwood & Indesit ones!
• a 600mm electric single oven - Whirlpool AKZ451IX looks like an affordable option that meets ethical criteria - saw review of a Baumatic one that exploded (pyrolitic oven)! Hope I shouldn't go too far wrong with a pretty basic electric oven from Whirlpool..??
• a 600mm gas hob preferably with wok burner - there's a Baumatic one I'm considering (P62SS) that meets the wok burner criteria but based on reviews of other baumatic appliances would I be silly to go for this - gas supply to rings surely can't be that complex?? There's also a CDA one on Hi Speed Gas site (MX60) but I've never heard of CDA. Has anyone out there heard of them??
• a 600mm cooker hood (with glass'd be nice) - this ain't easy. Baumatic have one & I saw it in In-House showroom in Santry. Buttons look really gammy. It's expensive anyway... There are Cata ones on Hi Speed Gas site (C-600 & PV-600) but again, like CDA, I never heard of that make.
• a < 600mm wide stainless steel freestanding fridge - because of slope of stairs, I can't seem to get an integrated one into the available space so have to go freestanding - I want 70:30 or 60:40 with small-ish freezer on bottom & larger fridge, stainless steel finish but most stuff is 1800mm or taller! That'll fit (integrated wouldn't cos of extra height needed for plinths etc.) but it does seem humongous. Belling BK66 might be a runner. I was looking on Baumatic's uk website for fridges and there is one (http://www.baumatic.co.uk/products/catalogue/refrigeration/freestandingrefrigeration/BF207BLM) that looks OK on screen but because of the mirror glass finish you'd have to see it & there have been some scathing remarks passed about Baumatic appliances

Belling are probably OK for cookers, anyone know about them for fridges/freezers & dishwashers.

Baumatic have gotten some slating on some sites I browsed. Based on a review of their dishwasher I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. I should be safe on the gas hob though shouldn't I?

Anyone have any thoughts on Powerpoint or Leisure as brands for dishwashers. Saw them in Powercity along with a Belling & (I think) an AEG/Electrolux.

Suspect that Powerpoint is a bit dodge (per
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=280926) but Leisure is a known cooker brand (that was ethical in 2004). Any thoughts on it's reliability for dishwashers though? Even though the booklets in dishwasher gave a url - www.leisurecp.co.uk - I couldn't find anything about dishwashers on it. So assume it's a new venture/someone else making them for them. No idea as to reliability...

Saw a really nice Kenwood dishwasher in Curry's but there are reviews that slate it from a height!! Reckon someone else makes it and it's badged as a Kenwood.

Hope I'm not stuck with Miele & high price tag to be ethical & get a reliable appliance...

Thanks

Sid

 

[Bamhan]

Re: Is it possible to get reliable ethical appliances??

I have a Baumatic dish washer, you are right it is a nightmare.
It breaks down constantly.
It is only 6 months old.

Also have a baumatic five ring gas hob, with wok burner, never a problem from that, very economical on bottled gas, can be used for natural or bottled gas.


Have a Baumatic double electric oven, it has not caused any problems thus far, it has numerous functions which I have not even tried though.
it can defrost, work as a conventional oven, a fan oven etc.
Not worth paying the extra for when those functions are hardly ever used.


I should point out I did not pay for any of my applainces and wold not have chosen baumatic were I the one doing the choosing.

 

[cavalier]

I am currently looking for parts for my Power point cooker have it 2 years -- nothing but trouble since the day we got it -- after 3 weeks the front fascia changed color. Power point said this was due to the heat?????
Its a cooker for Gods sake! After much argument they fixed the fascia it went the same way after another 3 weeks – this time we were told not to do toast with door open—It is a joke.
I said If it’s the last thing Id do Id warn people not to buy power point. We also had a washing machine and a dryer which only lasted 2 years by power point both cheap both a mistake.
Other brands I have used – had a Indesit washing machine 1000 rpm for 10 years – it moved house with us and worked no problems, reckoned it owed us nothing after 10 years. Recommended same machine to my mother she has had hers for 8 years now no problems. Also had an indiset dishwasher for 8 years in our present home and left one built into our last home it was going after 5 years when we left.

Currently have a Zanussi washing machine and dishwasher both working fine 3 years. While I appreciate the sentiment in buying ethical products. Is it ethical to sell products which barely see out their guarantee?

If you really look deeply enough you will find slave labour , and economically viable parts used in most machinery.

Please advise if you find a clean manufacturer!
Good , honest , decent , people need some thing to believe in.

Consumer A.

 

[McManus]

CDA appliances are an English company who source what they believe to be the best of the best appliances out there, taking up excess capacity in factories around Europe. All domestic appliances carry a 5 year parts warranty and 1 year labour. Goods can be viewed at www.cda.eu

 

[Black Sheep]

My cooker - Jackson Highline in daily use is 41 years (The makers are probably long since gone out of business).

Fridge - Bosh also in daily use is 33 years old

Vacuum cleaner - Nilfisk in daily use 19 years old.

You could probably call those reliable whatever about ethical

 

[ubiquitous]

The notion of assuming that Brand X products are "ethical" on the basis that Brand X has no connection with armaments, alcohol, sex industry etc is a bit unreliable, imho. Brand X could be as clean as a whistle, but who is to say that its suppliers and subcontractors are equally "ethical".

 

[Caveat]

The notion of assuming that Brand X products are "ethical" on the basis that Brand X has no connection with armaments, alcohol, sex industry etc is a bit unreliable, imho. Brand X could be as clean as a whistle, but who is to say that its suppliers and subcontractors are equally "ethical".

Very true - it's almost impossible to establish the credentials of a company when all aspects of their business need to be considered.
Add to that the occasional unfounded rumour and malicious press and things get very confusing.

 

[ClubMan]

You could probably call those reliable whatever about ethical

Wonder how they compare to more modern (e.g. A rated) appliances in terms of energy efficiency and running costs? Might be interesting to get one of those plug-in electricity monitors and measure the electricity usage over a few weeks.

 

[rmelly]

If I was attempting to source these items ethically, I'd probably be weary of any German company that traded during WW2 e.g. Bosch, and would investigate their Wartime activities before proceeding.

Note: I'm not making any accusations or implying anything but in the context of the request feel it should be considered.

 

[Black Sheep]

Yes clubman I take your point but think how long would it take to save enough electricity to justify the replacement cost of so many major appliances.

Also some of these gadgets are by now old friends.

 

[ClubMan]

Yes clubman I take your point but think how long would it take to save enough electricity to justify the replacement cost of so many major appliances.

Depends on how much more juice they use compared to more modern energy efficient appliances. You might be surprised!

 

[Joe Nonety]

My cooker - Jackson Highline in daily use is 41 years (The makers are probably long since gone out of business).

Fridge - Bosh also in daily use is 33 years old

Vacuum cleaner - Nilfisk in daily use 19 years old.

You could probably call those reliable whatever about ethical

Those are impressive stats. Have they required any repairs in that time?

 

[ubiquitous]

If I was attempting to source these items ethically, I'd probably be weary of any German company that traded during WW2 e.g. Bosch, and would investigate their Wartime activities before proceeding.

Note: I'm not making any accusations or implying anything but in the context of the request feel it should be considered.

Is it a bit much to assume that the share register of any large German manufacturer would not have changed much in 60-70 years? Or that ownership of particular brands might not have changed within that timeframe? Do you boycott Volkswagen, for example?

Why single out German companies? Would the same logic not also apply to Italian companies, Japanese companies or indeed the British or US companies that supplied the infrastructure for the destruction of Dresden and Hiroshima respectively?

 

[rmelly]

Do you boycott Volkswagen, for example?

I don't recall saying I wanted to deal with ethical companies.

Is it a bit much to assume that the share register of any large German manufacturer would not have changed much in 60-70 years?

Who mentioned ownership? I would be more interested in it's activities rather than who owned it.

Why single out German companies?

Let me think...what European country was responsible for the extermination of 6 million jews?

British or US companies

I have no issues with either of the events referred to. In the context of WW2 both were more than justified - in fact you could argue that the US and British were too restrained.

 

[ubiquitous]

I still can't see how you can deem, for example Volkswagen, to be an unethical company, simply because of the company/brand's origins & prominence in Nazi Germany, especially given that the postwar ownership of the company has had absolutely nothing to do with its Nazi past



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen

 

[ubiquitous]

Let me think...what European country was responsible for the extermination of 6 million jews?

You forget perhaps that many other European countries (our own included) didn't exactly cover themselves in glory in terms of protecting the Jewish people from the Holocaust. In fact most European countries were guilty, to some degree, of collaboration with the Nazis.

Btw if you think that the 1945 bombing of Dresden, packed as it was with wartime refugees, was justified, that is up to you. However many people would take the opposite view. Ditto Hiroshima & Nagasaki.

 

[ninsaga]

My cooker - Jackson Highline in daily use is 41 years (The makers are probably long since gone out of business).

Fridge - Bosh also in daily use is 33 years old

Vacuum cleaner - Nilfisk in daily use 19 years old.

You could probably call those reliable whatever about ethical

Those are impressive stats. Have they required any repairs in that time?

Could be a bit like the bloke who had an axe for the last 25 years & never had a problem, he only replaced the handle five times & the head twice.

 

[Black Sheep]

To Joe Nonety & Ninsaga

We have replaced one ring in the cooker in all that time and the clear plastic veg box in the fridge cracked but my sister was throwing hers out around the same time so I grabbed hers.
Needless to say if any repairs or replacements were required I'd be heading to the nearest skip (sorry recycle)

 

[meathenterpr]

Not sure if this is the correct topic to ask. I heard on some interview (Newstalk I think) the the grading system for Fridge/Freezers differs from other appliances and if you want to get a fridge/freezer that is similar to a A rating for other appliances you need to look for A++. A freezer with a A rating is similar to a C rated appliance. Is this true?

 

[ClubMan]

A freezer with a A rating is similar to a C rated appliance. Is this true?

Not sure what you mean but to estimate the electrical costs of an appliance you can check the specifics of the energy rating sticker - it should carry the maximum and/or average kW/h rating (the maximum kW/h rating, duty cycle and environmental conditions etc. combine to determine actual electricity usage).