I'm a bit disappointed in your use of classic, Russian Whataboutery - you're around here long enough to do better than that
Ireland has a serious Russia problem.
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Sister Sara
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Not at all. Quite clearly I wrote "if could indeed be the Russians".
The difference between your 'rational' and mine is that there is no evidence in any of the reports I've seen/heard/read that it was a Russian drone. On the contrary, the official position is that it is a story about an unverified sighting of a drone.
Yesterday there was a Novichok scare in Belfast, until there no novichok found.
I have no doubt Russia and China are collaborating in ways to undermine Western security. No doubt Western govts are acting the same with China, Russia and others.
Only contrary to the article you linked, these drone sightings, verified or not, novichok scares etc, all sound very unsophisticated to me. Whatever about European powers of Britain, France and Germany, I cannot make any rationale for Russia wanting to sow dissent amongst Irish people against Russia (as that in my opinion would be the likely outcome) when Ireland is a provider of raw material of alumina to Russia?
There are a very limited number of entities with the resources to place a large drone there. Take that list and eliminate the unlikely and Russia tops a very short list. Remember, it is the Russians who continue to use spy ships to escort sanctioned tankers through our waters, the very same spy ships that have been observed launching large drones in Irish waters in the past. Yep, this one must be the Belgians.
I don't believe that in any way makes them view us as a friendly nation. Remember, Russian money has been tied to misinformation campaigns surrounding our elections trying to influence the selection of more Russia-friendly candidates like Mick Wallace and Clare Daly.
Howth Head
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According to our own home-grown security "experts" - there's really nothing to see here.
www.rte.ie
"It is a nuisance, it's getting a lot of attention, the Government have to make statements about it, there'll be meetings about it.
"However, is it a direct threat? It's certainly not in the way that the drones spotted at the time of the Zelensky visit was. It's not in the same league of that.
"It's a reminder to us that there are gaps in our security architecture.
Drone activity not on same scale as during Zelensky visit
A security and defence analyst has said that he is not surprised by the reported sighting of a large unidentified drone off the east coast of Ireland.
"However, is it a direct threat? It's certainly not in the way that the drones spotted at the time of the Zelensky visit was. It's not in the same league of that.
"It's a reminder to us that there are gaps in our security architecture.
Sister Sara
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The official position is that the sighting of the drone is unverified.
Yesterday there were reports of someone coming into contact with Novichok. Today, it is confirmed that there was no novichok.
If the sighting of a drone is verified, then by all means in investigation into the source of the drone is warranted. But as @Howth Head points, the security and defence analyst says that while it conforms very much to elements of hybrid warfare "It's a simple, easy way to do it without any tracing back to a particular point of origin so the ambiguity keeps everybody guessing."
Far from being a sophisticated form of hybrid warfare, the experts appear to be saying that it is a relatively simple thing to do.
Sister Sara
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We are targeted as part of a broader attack on the cohesion of the EU. Ireland in and of itself is irrelevant but we are a conduit into the EU both literally in the case of Data Cables and figuratively in the case of a cohesive EU military and security response to Russian aggression.
Our complete lack of military capability makes us a soft and obvious target.
From the article you linked:
"One could argue that its conforms very much to elements of hybrid warfare. It gets more bang for its buck," Mr Power said.
"A maximum amount of attention comes for very little effort, and if its doing that, you can argue that its designed to knock us off balance a bit.
"When I say us, I don't mean just Ireland, I mean the EU, Europe in general. It's a simple, easy way to do it without any tracing back to a particular point of origin so the ambiguity keeps everybody guessing.
Sister Sara
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I'm not disagreeing with that, simply alerted to your 'rational' it was almost certainly the Russians,
when, the drone sighting has not even been confirmed yet.
Yesterday, in Belfast there was a novichok scare, today there was no novichock.
A while back " Jewish space laser" programme was ridiculed by many, today, newspapers in the only Jewish state, Israel, are reporting the existence of such programs.
I'm simply keeping an open mind as to who may be responsible, if there was an actual drone.
Russia using drones to threaten Irish airspace, and other EU countries, would only have the impact of unifying Europe in a response against Russia. At least that is my opinion.
Anyone betting against a record security and defence spending budget in October? Bringing us into closer alignment with our European partners?
Is this what Russia is trying to provoke?
when, the drone sighting has not even been confirmed yet.
Yesterday, in Belfast there was a novichok scare, today there was no novichock.
A while back " Jewish space laser" programme was ridiculed by many, today, newspapers in the only Jewish state, Israel, are reporting the existence of such programs.
I'm simply keeping an open mind as to who may be responsible, if there was an actual drone.
Russia using drones to threaten Irish airspace, and other EU countries, would only have the impact of unifying Europe in a response against Russia. At least that is my opinion.
Anyone betting against a record security and defence spending budget in October? Bringing us into closer alignment with our European partners?
Is this what Russia is trying to provoke?
You can't bundle these two incidents together. The action there was the direct result of a person claiming they had come into contact with Novichock. Such an occurence is unlikely, but the authorities must react as if it is true until confirmed otherwise.
They've been doing it for years, testing enemies and potential enemies response to such incursions is all a standard part of military preparedness. Just look at the various military exercises carried out by North and South Korea, China and Taiwan and its allies.
Lok at the absolute nonsense being trotted out by the far left about the Government wanting to join NATO by the back door when they are just looking to make our defence forces something other than an international laughing stock.
That is the sort of division that Russia and nurturing. At the same time they are stoking anti immigration sentiment in the far left and the far right (two sides of the same coin). China use TikTok and both Russia and China use social media in general to that end. It's all part of a longer term strategy.
Sister Sara
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This topic was started on actual reporting by both freelance and corporate media, in addition with political decision making at national and EU level regarding the Aughinish plant in Limerick. For the most part it has avoided the tin-foil hat conspiracy theorists.
Speculation and differing opinion is fine, but base it on logic and reasoning.
No-one is disputing that Russia, China etc are engaged in propaganda, espionage, etc...no different to other powerful state actors but sometimes I think they are given way too much credit.
The unverified drone sighting of the coast of Ireland appears to have vanished off the media interest today.
Ireland is country that is currently holding the Presidency of the Council of the European Union. We are hosting high-level dignatories and our ability to protect our shores against hostile attacks has come into focus. So much so, that we have requested naval frigates from Britain and France to provide overt assistance to our security. I've no way of knowing but covertly I'm sure there is co-operation occurring.
This weekend the President of US is arriving on these shores.
As it stands we have an unverified sighting of an unidentified 'quite large' drone off our Eastern coast. This would surely send alarm bells ringing in security circles? It certainly did in media circles (rightly).
But the official response and media follow-up seems rather blasé to say the least - its 'unverified', so no further comment or speculation to make. End of story?
In the meantime US President visit and schedule seems to be going ahead as planned - no indicators of concern there either it appears?
Would it be plausible to think that in advance of Trumps visit that Irish and US intell, defence and security have been in contact with each other, for both overt and covert security arrangements?
Would it be rational to think covert security for the President of US may involve the presence of US military drones, say, off our coasts?
Would it be possible that the apparent sighting/detection of this drone by a commercial airline pilot may represent a prospective political, diplomatic and security failure on the part of official Ireland?
I'm only speculating of course, but 24hrs + after this incident, it certainly looks to me that whatever the Irish government knows about this drone, it is drone activity that has lost their interest and interest of the media. I would suggest it is drone activity of an otherwise friendly actor and not a hostile actor, and the less said about it the better from their perspective.
Here is World News item on Russian sabotage reported today on independent.ie that may fill the void. This is proper, sophisticated, covert military operations involving secret weapons, anonymous sources etc....it reads as the real deal.
Thereafter, Aughinish alumina plant appears to have been kicked to touch under the wings of EU Commission where it would appear, there is nothing more to see there either!
Speculation and differing opinion is fine, but base it on logic and reasoning.
No-one is disputing that Russia, China etc are engaged in propaganda, espionage, etc...no different to other powerful state actors but sometimes I think they are given way too much credit.
The unverified drone sighting of the coast of Ireland appears to have vanished off the media interest today.
Ireland is country that is currently holding the Presidency of the Council of the European Union. We are hosting high-level dignatories and our ability to protect our shores against hostile attacks has come into focus. So much so, that we have requested naval frigates from Britain and France to provide overt assistance to our security. I've no way of knowing but covertly I'm sure there is co-operation occurring.
This weekend the President of US is arriving on these shores.
As it stands we have an unverified sighting of an unidentified 'quite large' drone off our Eastern coast. This would surely send alarm bells ringing in security circles? It certainly did in media circles (rightly).
But the official response and media follow-up seems rather blasé to say the least - its 'unverified', so no further comment or speculation to make. End of story?
In the meantime US President visit and schedule seems to be going ahead as planned - no indicators of concern there either it appears?
Would it be plausible to think that in advance of Trumps visit that Irish and US intell, defence and security have been in contact with each other, for both overt and covert security arrangements?
Would it be rational to think covert security for the President of US may involve the presence of US military drones, say, off our coasts?
Would it be possible that the apparent sighting/detection of this drone by a commercial airline pilot may represent a prospective political, diplomatic and security failure on the part of official Ireland?
I'm only speculating of course, but 24hrs + after this incident, it certainly looks to me that whatever the Irish government knows about this drone, it is drone activity that has lost their interest and interest of the media. I would suggest it is drone activity of an otherwise friendly actor and not a hostile actor, and the less said about it the better from their perspective.
Here is World News item on Russian sabotage reported today on independent.ie that may fill the void. This is proper, sophisticated, covert military operations involving secret weapons, anonymous sources etc....it reads as the real deal.
Thereafter, Aughinish alumina plant appears to have been kicked to touch under the wings of EU Commission where it would appear, there is nothing more to see there either!
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Thankfully we have a modern Navy which is fit for purpose and capable of defending our territorial waters from such hostile acts...
johnwilliams
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sister sara
"Would it be rational to think covert security for the President of US may involve the presence of US military drones, say, off our coasts?"
probably global hawks or mq-9 reapers doing top cover
maybe us army locust X3 ground based laser system to deal with fpv (first person view drones )
not to mention normal ecm to deal with regular drones
"Would it be rational to think covert security for the President of US may involve the presence of US military drones, say, off our coasts?"
probably global hawks or mq-9 reapers doing top cover
maybe us army locust X3 ground based laser system to deal with fpv (first person view drones )
not to mention normal ecm to deal with regular drones