Investing in a private firm (foreign & outside of EU)

Discussion in 'Tax' started by backfire, Sep 14, 2018.

  1. backfire

    backfire Registered User

    Posts:
    8
    Hi,
    I'm about to invest, say €150k, in a foreign private firm which is outside of the EU for the medium to long term. The investment will hopefully pay out a distribution annually all going well, say €12k p.a., as well as the investment worth accruing over time (all going well).

    I was wondering if anyone had comment on whether I should just manage tax returns in my own name via a Form 11 or is there a more tax efficient method of managing it.
    I'm currently on the top rate of tax, but may take early retirement in the next 3-5 years.

    I know the default response for this kind of question is, "talk to an accountant"....and I will do that but I'd like to get some opinions and different angles here first, if possible, so that I'm more aware of the different possibilities that are available.

    Don;t know too much about this area, but I'm guessing the amount of €€ involved isn't really significant enough to warrant the cost of setting something more tax efficient up...whatever that might be.

    Thanks
     
  2. T McGibney

    T McGibney Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    3,472
    This question involves all sort of complex potential issues.
    Impossible to safely give any level of meaningful advice in the absence of even basic information.
     
  3. backfire

    backfire Registered User

    Posts:
    8
    I'm not quite looking for safe / rock-solid advice - it's an anonymous internet forum after all! :) Just exploring what possibilities are out there
     
  4. T McGibney

    T McGibney Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    3,472
    Yeah but how can we comment on the tax treatment if you won't even tell us for example in what country it is located, whether that country has a double tax treaty with Ireland, and the nature of the investment and "distribution" which you mention?

    And not all the comments here are anonymous, BTW.
     
    RedOnion likes this.
  5. backfire

    backfire Registered User

    Posts:
    8
    Ok. Country is Australia - the firm is a private one and the investment will be held in a trust. The distribution is a cash return pa depending on how the firm does. I guess I omitted this as I was thinking it would be ok to ask in a general sense rather than getting into too much detail.
    Australia does have double tax treaty with Ireland, and you are right of course that is an important factor, so I guess I was far too abstract.

    Ok, noted. I guess for those that aren't anonymous they could always indicate that their comment should not be set in stone depending on the nature of the post.
     
  6. T McGibney

    T McGibney Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    3,472
    Nobody's comments here should be "set in stone". Remember, none of us are getting paid for commenting here. It's difficult to offer anything more than comments in response to queries as we never know the full context of any query.
     
  7. backfire

    backfire Registered User

    Posts:
    8
    Yup, but it helps for those that have businesses related to the forum as it can potentially generate interest in their services.

    Yup absolutely. And I guess that's all I'm looking for is comments & angles before I talk to an accountant, which is what I said in my original post.
     
  8. T McGibney

    T McGibney Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    3,472
    Hang on now, that canard doesn't give you any right to treat any comment here by myself or any other identifiable poster as akin to or a substitute for professional advice.

    I'll let someone else answer your query.
     
  9. backfire

    backfire Registered User

    Posts:
    8
    I really don't understand why you are getting upset. It is obvious that by putting ones professional name out there in forums or other media, that it can help with generating business.
    I was just holding a light to comment "none of us are getting paid for commenting here". And I'm not trying to use this as a "substitute for professional advice", I'm simply trying to get an understanding of the area, so I can ask pertinent questions to a professional.

    I've been given professional advice before which was substandard and I didn't know it at the time because I didn't know what questions to ask. I was hoping to use this thread to get a bit of knowledge in the area. It would seem that you've pretty much killed this thread though. So thanks for that.
     
  10. RedOnion

    RedOnion Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    1,679
    I don't think Tommy killed it.
    You asked a question that nobody can answer.

    You are asking for very very specific advice, but in a general sense.

    There are far too many unknowns for anyone to provide any meaningful advice, specific to your circumstances without knowing what your circumstances are, or the exact nature of the proposed investment.

    For example, are you Irish domiciled?
    Do you intend to remain resident here?
    Do you have capital losses to use up?
    What's your pension funding like - are you already at the max tax free lump sum you can take?
    As a straight investment, what's the tax treatment in Australia?
    Etc.
     
    T McGibney likes this.
  11. backfire

    backfire Registered User

    Posts:
    8
    Thanks for your response. My weak understanding of the area meant that I hadn't considered half of that, what you are mentioning (and what T McGibney mentioned) are the kinda factors that I am in.

    Yes & yes
    Just nominal losses at this moment - that could of course change in the future.
    Mostly maxed out.
    I'm following this up with a tax accountant in Australia - I believe they have one of the most complicated tax systems in the world :(

    Thanks for highlighting some areas that I need to be aware of
     
  12. Gordon Gekko

    Gordon Gekko Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    3,097
    In broad terms:

    - As an Irish resident Irish domiciled individual, you are subject to Irish income tax and Irish capital gains tax in respect of all worldwide income and worldwide gains respectively.

    - An adviser will need to know the proposed structure; for example, are you getting a shareholding or is it a loan?

    - The Aussie piece will be important.

    But what about the actual investment? 8% yield sounds like it may be risky; and what about the currency risk? It might do great in AUD terms, but rubbish in Euro.