Interesting Use Cases and News about Cryptos/Blockchain Technology

Brendan Burgess said:
Duke

Why do you have to ruin all these guys' faith with cold logic? It's really cruel.

Brendan
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Hello,

I'm so glad that Mr. Burgess and the Duke weren't around, back when early man was trying to find ways to make fire.... because if they had been, then I reckon we'd only be able to thank them for the cold, rather than the cold logic that they now offer us ;)


.
 
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Negotiator said:
IOTA Ecosystem finally up and running. Watch the community stats explode over the coming months. This is Blockchain 3.0 in the form of The Tangle.....watch this space! :)
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I've not been following closely - find it hard to even have the time to follow BTC adequately. Have these developments been priced in with IOTA do you think or is there dtsti value there?
 
tecate said:
I've not been following closely - find it hard to even have the time to follow BTC adequately. Have these developments been priced in with IOTA do you think or is there dtsti value there?
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Difficult to answer Tecate but I don't think everything is priced in because only the hardcore IOTA followers will be up to date with all the developments in this tech. I've been involved in IOTA for over a year and have seen it run up from 30c to $5.50 in a short period of time when there was a misunderstanding that Microsoft were partnering with IOTA. People find it hard to get their head around IOTA and The Tangle but once they do they tend to get very enthusiastic about it.

IOTA is doing an incredible amount of work in the background but the work they are doing won't be visible for some time. They have big companies banging their door down to collaborate. However the biggest challenge they have right now is switching off the coordinator as soon as possible (may take another year to two before they can) as this allows the FUDsters to accuse it of not being decentralized. But it's an essential piece of kit until the network reaches a certain amount of volume. All cryptos with new protocols had to go through this in some shape or form in it's early days ie- BTC/ETH etc

If this gets adopted as the standard for the IoT industry then it's going to be absolutely massive in my opintion. It will make ETH look small in comparison. So to answer your question, I honestly think there is a massive amount of upside for IOTA but needless to say it's not without it's (very high) risks!
 
PS - If you want to get a round up of IOTA's developments each week then follow this German dude on his YouTube channel here (he has an english version also). It's very informative and will save you trawling through all the news for the week.
 
@Negotiator : Just doing a preliminary read up on IOTA. Seems impressive. What competition does it face in terms of alternative coins/projects? Clearly, it's fundamentally different to Ethereum & BTC with it not having miners or fees.
 
tecate said:
@Negotiator : Just doing a preliminary read up on IOTA. Seems impressive. What competition does it face in terms of alternative coins/projects? Clearly, it's fundamentally different to Ethereum & BTC with it not having miners or fees.
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Hi Tecate,

The closest competitor is IoT Chain which is effectively Chinese so probably will target mostly Chinese companies. I don't know a whole lot about it but I probably should research it more and maybe put a few Bob into it as a hedge. It doesn't have to be an either or too because it's going to be a massive industry (circa 75 Billion connected devices in the foreseeable future). There another Crypto beginning with W but I forget the name of it. It's not really a competitor though.

That said IOTA is light years ahead in this space. When QUBIC is fully launched it's going to be a game changer. IOTA is still early and ugly right now but it's rapidly developing.

Follow Limo at TheTangleBlog.com and you'll be brought up to speed pretty quickly. Check out some of the interviews with the founders particularly David Stønsebø.

It's completely different to BTC and ETH but solves a lot of the problems they have with regards scaling and fees etc hence why it's considered Blockchain 3.0 (it's actually blockless and doesn't have a chain per se).

It has it's fair share of detractors and Doom and gloom merchants because it's so radical and disruptive not to mention vested interest from miners etc.
 
Thanks for the info Negotiator. I need to go and do some homework now. IOTA certainly seems interesting enough to warrant that at the very least.
 
tecate said:
Thanks for the info Negotiator. I need to go and do some homework now. IOTA certainly seems interesting enough to warrant that at the very least.
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No worries Tecate. Here's a good starting point: [broken link removed] but there's plenty of good guides and articles on Medium too. Let me know if you have any questions.
 
@Negotiator: Have been doing some gentle research on this (still plenty to do). I just wondered if I could bounce a few points off you.

IOTA does seem to be a progressive project but it's led me to look at what the potential downsides may be (in a constructive way as I may buy in if I can account for them).

A few things that popped up here;

https://www.media.mit.edu/posts/iota-response/

- MIT suggest that IOTA went down for 3 days and needed the intervention of 'the coordinator'. They say this proves that IOTA can't be decentralised as it needs the coordinator.
I watched an interview with David Sonstebo in which he explained many decentralised crypto needed a similar steer initially before becoming properly decentralised.
Any idea how the system went down? What do you think of the criticisms re. lack of decentralisation?

- IOTA Dev's removed funds from IOTA accounts?
I guess once the coordinator is withdrawn, this will no longer be possible?

- They make the point that it's not strictly fee free as the user has to confirm 2 other transactions. Surely, this isn't a big deal? You wouldn't need to leave a machine running all day to achieve this? Does it not all happen together in a very short space of time?

- The biggest deal was made by MIT of IOTA rolling its own hash function without rigorous testing...and their discovery of a vulnerability.

You think that whilst the coordinator is still in play, it's acceptable to follow this practice...and that by the time the coordinator is taken away, there won't be anything to worry about as it will have been fully tested?
 
tecate said:
@Negotiator: Have been doing some gentle research on this (still plenty to do). I just wondered if I could bounce a few points off you.

IOTA does seem to be a progressive project but it's led me to look at what the potential downsides may be (in a constructive way as I may buy in if I can account for them).

A few things that popped up here;

https://www.media.mit.edu/posts/iota-response/

- MIT suggest that IOTA went down for 3 days and needed the intervention of 'the coordinator'. They say this proves that IOTA can't be decentralised as it needs the coordinator.
I watched an interview with David Sonstebo in which he explained many decentralised crypto needed a similar steer initially before becoming properly decentralised.
Any idea how the system went down? What do you think of the criticisms re. lack of decentralisation?

- IOTA Dev's removed funds from IOTA accounts?
I guess once the coordinator is withdrawn, this will no longer be possible?

- They make the point that it's not strictly fee free as the user has to confirm 2 other transactions. Surely, this isn't a big deal? You wouldn't need to leave a machine running all day to achieve this? Does it not all happen together in a very short space of time?

- The biggest deal was made by MIT of IOTA rolling its own hash function without rigorous testing...and their discovery of a vulnerability.

You think that whilst the coordinator is still in play, it's acceptable to follow this practice...and that by the time the coordinator is taken away, there won't be anything to worry about as it will have been fully tested?
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Good questions Tecate, you got to some of the biggest issues facing IOTA very quickly (although there a number of others too). I'll answer your queries one by one....

- MIT suggest that IOTA went down for 3 days and needed the intervention of 'the coordinator'. They say this proves that IOTA can't be decentralised as it needs the coordinator.
I watched an interview with David Sonstebo in which he explained many decentralised crypto needed a similar steer initially before becoming properly decentralised.
Any idea how the system went down? What do you think of the criticisms re. lack of decentralisation?

The whole MIT saga through up a lot of misinformation at the time and caused all sorts of panic. However there were very valid issues that MIT raised with IOTA in relation to security. In my opinion, neither IOTA nor MIT handled the whole situation very well (the usual ego clashes between 2 very smart guys/teams). That said, IOTA patched up the security vulnerabilities and updated the software promptly before anyone really became aware of the issue. It was afterwards that a row effectively broke out in public but if you look deeper you will see that there are vested interests involved (surprise surprise!) as some of the same guys were working on a competing Crypto called Enigma if I remember correctly (you might want to double check this though).

With regard the Coordinator (COO for short) being turned off for 3 days, this wasn't related to the security vulnerability that MIT highlighted. It was related to the IOTA Foundation (IF for short) seizing IOTA that was being used by addresses that had already sent IOTA ie- reusing addresses. It's a bit technical but basically addresses should only be used once when sending (receiving is fine multiple times).

So the IF did this to prevent IOTAs being stolen or 'double spent' from effected addresses. Whilst this was known by any savvy holders of IOTA, not everyone understood it and overlooked the issues. Bear in mind this was last year and amid a Crypto frenzy so people were not taking the time to understand how it worked. These issues will all be solved with the new Trinity Wallet and various upgrades etc so it's really just an issue right now because we're at the early stages.

With regards the criticisms of it not being decentralized, firstly it's a very valid question and we would all prefer if the COO didn't need to be in place. However it's a necessary evil to allow the network to grow and mature enough before it is removed but rest assured it will be removed at some stage down the road. The founders won't give a date but my guess is that it will happen within the next couple of years. It is worth mentioning however that the network can function perfectly without it but it just leaves it vulnerable to a 33% attack if the network isn't big enough and enough Nodes running etc. For me it's not a major issue. but needless to say that it will be great when it's removed. As you mentioned, similar systems were required for other protocols in the early days.


- IOTA Dev's removed funds from IOTA accounts?
I guess once the coordinator is withdrawn, this will no longer be possible?

I mostly answered this above but yes I think it wouldn't be possible once the COO is removed as far as I know.


- They make the point that it's not strictly fee free as the user has to confirm 2 other transactions. Surely, this isn't a big deal? You wouldn't need to leave a machine running all day to achieve this? Does it not all happen together in a very short space of time?

You're absolutely right, it really is no bid deal. You simply confirm 2 previous transactions and it can even be done by your phone.....piece of cake. In fact that's one of the great things about IOTA, the network will be helped by eveyones mobile phones when they are sending micro transactions......the more transactions the more secure the network becomes. There are light nodes (ie- your mobile phone or pc/wallet) and full nodes so you defo don't need to run a machine all day to create a transaction. In fact it generally takes no more than a minute or two to confirm and complete a transaction and this should get faster as time goes on.




- The biggest deal was made by MIT of IOTA rolling its own hash function without rigorous testing...and their discovery of a vulnerability.

You think that whilst the coordinator is still in play, it's acceptable to follow this practice...and that by the time the coordinator is taken away, there won't be anything to worry about as it will have been fully tested?

There is no getting away from this. Many industry experts say that this is a MAJOR NO NO to roll your own crypto. However this is revolutionary tech and they felt it was best to go down this route. I don't understand all the technical details but if I understand it correctly it is mostly to do with Hardware using less energy with Ternary systems and because they are specifically going after IoT devices it is essential that they use the bare minimum power to use IOTA on the tangle. The IOTA founders are involved in JINN processors (although it's a bit vague exactly how) as these will need to be used (or something similar) for everything to run as efficiently as possible. Think of how perhaps a parking meter accepting payment from an electric vehicle will need to run for years on a very low amount of power etc. Another example might be a shipping container running for months constantly running data over The Tangle.

Again I've kind of answered most issues related to the COO above but I definitely won't be worried when they take it away because they will only do it when they know it's ready to be removed. They also mentioned before that it might end up being a gradual process where they removed it for periods of time and increase the intervals while it's removed over time.


Hope this gives you a bit of food for thought but you're looking in the right areas while doing your research. Hopefully you will be convinced by the end of it but a project like this is very high risk as you know but it is very exciting to be a part of it. They are making good progress though and going about everything in the right way. The Founders are not exactly the best people to push and market this technology in my opinion but they are building a great team that will make the IF a lot more polished with regards dealing with big corporates and the general public.

I wouldn't be surprised if IOTA slips back to the circa $1.50 range over the coming weeks but Qubic is beginning to emerge and when that is launched coupled with the new Trinity Wallet I would expect there to be a fairly big surge in price so watch out for that. However this is really a 3 to 5 year play in my opinion!

Happy IOTA'ing! :)
 
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@Negotiator : Cracking response - thanks for the insight, getting me further up to speed.

Personally, I'm not bothered about a long lead time to fruition. That's how BTC panned out for me.

However, others are making the point that time needed to be market ready is highly relevant. The suggestion is that another project may not carry as many advantages but that being much quicker off the mark will mean that gets adopted rather than IOTA. Kind of like the VHS/Betamax scenario. Not quite sure what to make of that argument..
 
tecate said:
@Negotiator : Cracking response - thanks for the insight, getting me further up to speed.

Personally, I'm not bothered about a long lead time to fruition. That's how BTC panned out for me.

However, others are making the point that time needed to be market ready is highly relevant. The suggestion is that another project may not carry as many advantages but that being much quicker off the mark will mean that gets adopted rather than IOTA. Kind of like the VHS/Betamax scenario. Not quite sure what to make of that argument..
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It's a very good argument about a competitor getting there first but here's how I look at it.....

Cryptos as we all know is full of Cowboys and IOTA have gone through a painstaking process to set up their foundation in Germany. This gives them maximum credibility when dealing with big corporates. Furthermore IOTA are at the forefront of a number of official organizations like the IoT Alliance and Mobility on the Blockchain Initiative (MOBI). These organizations have some of the major players in their for fields and it's already bearing fruit for IOTA with the likes of BOSCH, Fujitsu, Volkswagen and many others collaborating with IOTA.

So all in all I think IOTA are already way ahead of the Possie. Bear in mind that a standard protocol needs to be created so this is exactly what IOTA needs to do to get the major players on board. Make no mistake about it, it's a monumental task bit it could also be a monumental project if they can crack it..... think 75 Billion connected devices preinitiali using this technology in the next decade or so!
 
PS- You're clearly an early adopter so it will be interesting to discuss more about IOTA with you as you learn more about it. Sometimes the IOTA community can be a little over-enthusiastic/biassed about IOTA (of which I'm guilty myself at times! ) so on only discusses the upside. That said there is a brilliant community around IOTA..... Clearly visible on Reddit and Discord etc
 
Negotiator said:
PS- You're clearly an early adopter so it will be interesting to discuss more about IOTA with you as you learn more about it.
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Be careful what you ask for! I'm not at a point of parting with my grandchildren's inheritance but it's the first 'altcoin' I can genuinely express some interest in. Therefore, loads of questions on the way...


Negotiator said:
Sometimes the IOTA community can be a little over-enthusiastic/biassed about IOTA (of which I'm guilty myself at times! ) so on only discusses the upside. That said there is a brilliant community around IOTA..... Clearly visible on Reddit and Discord etc
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Yup, group think is a very dangerous trap that any of us can fall in to. That's why I see greater value sometimes in discussing crypto (well BTC really) here rather than elsewhere. I might get frustrated with Brendan et Al's viewpoint at times but it makes for a more thought out perspective as if everything is questioned, you're made think it all through.
 
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