Change matters in what way?
There is obviously a moral issue around mistakes in wills. When my mother died my elder brother acted as executor and quickly sold our family home and distributed the proceeds among the 5 of us. Shortly after we received the money AIB made a claim on our mother's estate for €200,000 relating to a personal guarantee that she had given on behalf a very good friend back in 2002. We were shocked, angry and so upset about the guarantee, which my mother had never told anyone about. There was no mention of it in the papers that my brother went through. We took legal advice on it, and the solicitors advice was that it was validly given. The only good thing about it was that we had not yet spent the money which we had received. We could not let our brother, who had acted in good faith, become personally liable for the €200,000, so we all paid back €50,000 each. The guarantee will always rankle me.
I'm not dishonest or a bad person but if I had been given the money along with my other siblings I personally would find it very difficult to give it back and so would all of my siblings. What could they do about it?
This is a bit of a shocker, and is there anything an executor can do to protect themselves from such events, e.g. a debt, such as a personal guarantee, arising years after probate has been granted? I've acted as a executor twice. The Law Society's Administration of Estates document says that an executor's duties include 'Finding out what debts have to be paid', but does not go into further details. I would think most executors take this is to include bank debts, mortgages, liens, taxation and related, etc. but a personal guarantee? I've since read that an executor should publish a creditor's notice asking for creditors to present details of claims against the estate, but nobody I know who acted as an executor has published such a notice. Is this a legal requirement or just good practice? And if there is no response to a creditor's notice can creditors just turn up years later and claim against the estate or the executor?When my mother died my elder brother acted as executor and quickly sold our family home and distributed the proceeds among the 5 of us. Shortly after we received the money AIB made a claim on our mother's estate for €200,000 relating to a personal guarantee that she had given on behalf a very good friend back in 2002. We were shocked, angry and so upset about the guarantee, which my mother had never told anyone about. There was no mention of it in the papers that my brother went through. We took legal advice on it, and the solicitors advice was that it was validly given. The guarantee will always rankle me.
As per the post, they could go after the Executor (who was a sibling).
I know that but he could have spent the money or whatever, had nothing in his name of value and the other siblings likewise. Seems to me that giving back something like this in a very mannerly and civic way is not the proper way to go about it and just felt there's other avenues one could use.
Eh, not at all. Giving the cash back is the normal and moral thing to do. If they hadn't, the Executor would be on the hook personally for the error.
We've all read the original post and understand what might happen. Sometimes trying to impose one's own morals on a situation just doesn't cut ice, this is one of those times. Thanks for telling us what's normal and moral for you, it's not for everyone though.
There is such a thing as "objective morality". Not my moral code or yours, a general code of what's right and wrong. You for example may think that it would be okay to keep money that's accidentally transferred into your account. Objective morality would say otherwise.
There is such a thing as "objective morality". Not my moral code or yours, a general code of what's right and wrong. You for example may think that it would be okay to keep money that's accidentally transferred into your account. Objective morality would say otherwise.
I'm not dishonest or a bad person but if I had been given the money along with my other siblings I personally would find it very difficult to give it back and so would all of my siblings. What could they do about it?
You are missing the point here.
My siblings and I were very angry about the guarantee that my mother had given to Bank of Ireland. We did find it difficult to have to hand the money back, but it was the correct moral thing to do, as it would have been immoral and unjust for my brother to be stuck with the whole liability.
If you were in a similar situation would your conscience allow you to let your brother pick up the full liability?
I've since read that an executor should publish a creditor's notice asking for creditors to present details of claims against the estate, but nobody I know who acted as an executor has published such a notice. Is this a legal requirement or just good practice? And if there is no response to a creditor's notice can creditors just turn up years later and claim against the estate or the executor?
This "objective morality" guy can say whatever he wants, but i'll go with my own conscience on this particular one. Hope that's ok and you have no problem with it. You carry on with your guy, i've no problem at all with that.
I very much doubt the people on here represent "the majority of people".I do have a problem with it actually. Thankfully, the majority of people don't share your views.
As a matter of interest did you and the family get proper legal and accounting advice before paying up and what exactly was the advice? I
We were all so angry about it that we insisted on getting a barrister's opinion on it. The barrister's opinion was that the guarantee was "good" i.e. AIB would win a case on it, and that AIB were within the statute of limitations for dealing with its claim on the deceased estate.
It turned out that our mother's solicitor had "forgotten" about the guarantee when he was helping my brother with the probate. It was only when the solicitor obtained a copy of the guarantee (with his signature on it as a witness) from the bank that he remembered it.
My bother tried to get a discount. However, AIB knew that they had us over a barrel, and insisted on full payment, otherwise the matter was going to end up in the High Court.