Motor In a crash, no license.

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Xennon

Guest
Hi all,
In a bit of a quandary, friend of mine was in a crash recently, not her fault in any way. However she used to have a provisional license about 25 years ago and never renewed it. She is an elderly woman who pretty much just let it slip passed her. Now I know she is still insured by her own company as the clause 'hold or having held a driving license' applies. She recieved a claim form from the other companies insurance company which requests a copy of her licence and further such details, this has lever her in a bit of a worried state. I'm hoping someone here can advise us on what we should do.
Thank you.
 
This aint good...
Am I reading this correctly? Driving 25 years without a licence. !! I think she has a lot to worry about!
She must have lied to get insurance so thats pretty much void. However, if the insurance covers it by some miracle she will potentially have a garda record..... Not looking good Im afraid.
 
Hi just wondering if you have personally read this clause as coming from an insurance background I can say this sounds like an odd one to me. Even if it is legit driving without a licence no matter how long it's expired is an offence and she will most likely end up with a driving ban and conviction. Legal advice is your best bet at this moment but I can't see this ending well
 
No she hasnt lied to the insurance company as she had a license when she started driving, all the insurance company does then is send out a bill for renewal. I will see if i can find the actual policy.
 
Yes but in the Insuranc literature it generally says that any material facts should be notified to them. Not having a licence is a material fact. Having a provisional is also a lot different to having an actual licence where one passed the driving test.
 
And there is no way that you are telling us that she has been with the same insurer for the last 25 years!
 
Peteb, I came here to look for some advice not to be called a liar, To those who have answered constructively, thank you, I've told her to contact a solicitor and take it from there.
 
There may be a non declaration. if she said that she DID hold a current licence at time she took put the policy, be it Prov or Full, then she did not tell the truth. If she said she had a FULL and only had a PROV, she did not tell the truth.

However, the insurer MUST deal with the Third Party claim.

Insurer MAY have rights of recovery against her, in the event of a LIE.
 
Check her policy , but usually an expired license is good enough for insurance. I know it is on mine.

Either way , won't have any influence on the claim as she was not at fault.

I would however get her booked in for a theory test tomorrow.
 
it is, except when she would have had to fill in a proposal form in the last twenty years, and therefore misrepresented her situation in relation to having a valid licence! if you look at 123.ie, one of their assuptions is that you have current licence.

Anyways its neither here nor there. If she's not at fault in the claim, her insurance isn't the relevant policy here so valid policy or not the claim should be ok. The problem is in terms of the Road Traffic Act and the cops in terms of the laws she was breaking. She will also need to declare her own situation in relation to her licence and let them be the judge of whether they wish to continue cover.
 
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Most companies have a clause: If you have held a licence... so she should be ok.

Garda will probably prosecute her for having no licence and ban her - hopefully so.
 
Ye're missing the important point mentioned by PeteB and myself.

If she was not insured with the same company and teh same policy for teh past 20 years, then she has been putting untruths on the proposal forms. That has serious ramifications.

It is not the licence, but the lies told on the proposal form that will get you into trouble.
 
Ravima said:
Ye're missing the important point mentioned by PeteB and myself.

If she was not insured with the same company and teh same policy for teh past 20 years, then she has been putting untruths on the proposal forms. That has serious ramifications.

It is not the licence, but the lies told on the proposal form that will get you into trouble.
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Ravima you are missing the point, as she was not at fault for the accident, from an insurance point of view this accident/claim will have nothing to do with her own insurance policy.

The main problem she will have is if the Gardai become involved
 
Just to deal with a point in the original post - I wouldn't be filling in a claim form or providing a copy of my licence to the other party's insurance company. That is their policy holders obligation.
 
Gooner84 said:
Ravima you are missing the point, as she was not at fault for the accident, from an insurance point of view this accident/claim will have nothing to do with her own insurance policy.

The main problem she will have is if the Gardai become involved
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I beg to differ. The accident may have nothing to do with her insurer per se, but the non-disclosure/untruths will have everything to do with it if /when the insurer cancels cover due to it, and/or refuses future cover, or if there was deliberate misrepresentation, makes an issue out of this.

An insurance contract can be voided when utmost good faith is breeched, as appears to be the case here.
 
Xennon said:
Hi all,
In a bit of a quandary, friend of mine was in a crash recently, not her fault in any way. However she used to have a provisional license about 25 years ago and never renewed it. She is an elderly woman who pretty much just let it slip passed her. Now I know she is still insured by her own company as the clause 'hold or having held a driving license' applies. She recieved a claim form from the other companies insurance company which requests a copy of her licence and further such details, this has lever her in a bit of a worried state. I'm hoping someone here can advise us on what we should do.
Thank you.
Click to expand...

I think there are two issues here, first in respect to the accident itself, she is going to have to provide the documentation requested, if she wants to make a claim - I guess she could always just drop the issue and hope it goes a way.

The second issue, the lack of a driving licence is a more serious one - a provisional license only allows one to drive under supervision and as such is not a driving licence under the meaning of the insurance contract. Furthermore insurance contracts are what is called contracts of "utmost good faith", meaning that you are required to bring all relevant facts to the attention of the insurance company even if they did not ask for them, not holding and never having held a full driving licence is definitely on that list. So if she is every involved in an accident where her insurer has to pay out, she can expect that while they will cover the third party costs, they will at a minimum come after here for these costs and most likely inform the garda of the situation.

Jim.
 
Jim2007 said:
I think there are two issues here, first in respect to the accident itself, she is going to have to provide the documentation requested, if she wants to make a claim - I guess she could always just drop the issue and hope it goes a way.

The second issue, the lack of a driving licence is a more serious one - a provisional license only allows one to drive under supervision and as such is not a driving licence under the meaning of the insurance contract.

Jim.
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You're completely wrong here. The matter of a provisional licence and supervision whilst driving is nothing to do with the insurance contract. It is a civil law matter. A driving licence is a driving licence whether its full or provisional for insurance.

Secondly again, if it another parties policy she is making a claim under there is no reason for her to provide a copy of her driving licene. it has nothing to do with a claim. Nor is there an obligation on her to complete a claim form for the other persons insurance company as it is not her policy.
 
i do believe because she has no license she should not have been on the road in the first place. So there fore the accident would not have happened.
I would put money on her being jointly liable and then facing a ban/conviction
 
peteb said:
You're completely wrong here. The matter of a provisional licence and supervision whilst driving is nothing to do with the insurance contract. It is a civil law matter. A driving licence is a driving licence whether its full or provisional for insurance.
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Do you have a case law reference for this, or is an opinion? The few policies I've seen make a distinction between the cover of a provisional driver and others. And given the fact that it goes to the skill of the driver being covered, I would expect it to be relevant in the context of "Utmost Good Faith".

peteb said:
Secondly again, if it another parties policy she is making a claim under there is no reason for her to provide a copy of her driving licene. it has nothing to do with a claim. Nor is there an obligation on her to complete a claim form for the other persons insurance company as it is not her policy.
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So if she fails to produce the documentation how should she proceed??? My expectation is that no insurance company will pay out if it's procedure is not followed. At this point she need to seek legal redress and of course the insurance company would be aware that there must be a problem, otherwise she simply show the licence... These questions are there for a reason, very often there is a problem with the licence and it gives them a possible opt out...

Jim.
 
nediaaa said:
i do believe because she has no license she should not have been on the road in the first place. So there fore the accident would not have happened.
I would put money on her being jointly liable and then facing a ban/conviction
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I think it you know nothing about the law.

The fact that the driver broke a law has nothing to do with the civil claim.

By your logic I would crash into a parked car with out of date tax (after all it shouldn't be on the road without tax) , and the owner of car would be jointly liable for the crash.
 
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