If the average family size is 2.4 , why are we building 3 bed semi-ds?

Discussion in 'Housing and mortgage arrears - policy issues' started by Brendan Burgess, Sep 14, 2017.

  1. Brendan Burgess

    Brendan Burgess Founder

    Ireland’s housing crisis 'stems from shortage of apartments'

    Ronan Lyons gave a good talk to the Dublin Economics Workshop yesterday

    We have about 150,000 more 3 bed houses than we have families which need them.

    We have around 500,000 fewer one and two bedroom apartments than we have people living alone and in couples.

    His paper should be available online from Monday.

  2. galway_blow_in

    galway_blow_in Frequent Poster


    the funny thing about that is ,decent sized two bed apartments in many parts of dublin are still reasonably good value where as even modest three bed houses are heading across 400 k in most parts of the capital

    my partner and i have a young kid and id happily live in an apartment in dublin were i to move there , other half demands a garden but many developments have very nice public green spaces
  3. cremeegg

    cremeegg Frequent Poster

    Ireland is the least urbanised country in Europe. Less than 4% of our land is built on.

    We are in the fortunate position of being able to house our population in houses for the most part without needing to put people in apartments.

    When the situation changes so that pressure on available space is such that we have to put people in apartments then we may need to go that way. Of course that may be the case in Central Dublin already, but a rebalancing of development away from the capital would redress that.

    If people want to live in apartments that is one thing, but let us not force them just because apartments were the solution adopted in other countries at a different time. Importing solutions from elsewhere which were developed to address different issues is a very bad habit of Irish planning.
  4. PGF2016

    PGF2016 Frequent Poster

    The situation is long since passed! We're in a housing crisis and need them urgently. It's either that or long commutes from 3/4 bed properties with big gardens.
  5. mathepac

    mathepac Frequent Poster

    There is no housing crisis. There are more empty dwellings than there are people in need of housing. Fake news created by the same vested interests that brought us the financial crises - politicians (30% of the current cabinet are heavily invested in property), developers, builders, financial institutions and their coterie of ne'er do-wells.
  6. galway_blow_in

    galway_blow_in Frequent Poster

    Yes there are lots of houses in Leitrim and roscommon
  7. Firefly

    Firefly Frequent Poster

    I think that could be a great idea.
  8. T McGibney

    T McGibney Frequent Poster

    Note that the average individual has slightly less than one testicle and slightly more than one breast.
    Purple and qwerty5 like this.
  9. odyssey06

    odyssey06 Frequent Poster


    The cost of building a two-bedroom apartment is way in excess of the selling price, meaning few developments are likely to go ahead unless the Government tackles Vat, levies and other costs, a new report claims. The Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland (CSI) says it is cheaper to build a three-bedroom semi-detached house than an apartment, and that a couple would need a joint income of at least €87,000 to afford to buy an apartment - but only 20pc of the population has this salary.
    'The Real Costs of New Apartment Delivery' report analysed three apartment types - low-rise suburban (up to three storeys with overground car parking); medium-rise suburban (three to six storeys, with some underground parking) and medium-rise urban, of five to eight storeys with underground parking.
    It found that a two-bedroom unit in low-rise suburban would fetch between €298,000 and €308,000, but each home would cost between €293,000 and €346,000 to construct. For medium-rise suburban, the selling price ranged from €318,000 to €386,000, but the costs were €400,000 to €418,000. In the medium-rise urban, selling prices ranged from €337,000 to €441,000, but they cost between €470,000 and €578,000 to build.
    The report says that the site cost makes up 16pc of the total price, the 'bricks and mortar' accounts for another 43pc, and the remaining 41pc is made up of 'soft costs', including €9,000 in selling costs, levies and Vat. The builders' profit makes up €52,000, or 12pc. Costs could be reduced by removing the requirement for car parking (€2,000-€36,000 per unit), development levies (€10,000-€13,000), cheaper finance at 7pc (€5,000-€11,000), a 9pc Vat rate (€13,400-€19,820) and making apartments 10pc smaller (€6,000-€9,000).

  10. roker

    roker Frequent Poster

    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
    If they want older people to move to smaller houses they should help with cost, to sell and buy another house can cost around €15,000 with auctioneers fees, stamp duty, land registry, solicitor for selling and buying plus bridging loan and removal.
    Terraced houses I hate because the Wheely bin has to be taken through the house for collection each week.
    2.4 persons does not make sense, It is nice to have at least one spare bedroom for relative grand kids to stay.
    There is very little storage space in apartments personally I have a large amount of tools which I keep in a small workshop outside
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018