DazedInPontoon
Registered User
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My point is that holding it for speculative purposes is using it.If 65% is not being used doesn't that tell you that it's being held for speculative purposes?
So what do you use it for?In your view it would seem not, in my view I do.
Volatility being only one of the many downsides of using it as a store of value. It's also non-fungible, probably has an illiquid market, is non-divisible and may deteriorate in quality over time. It may also be difficult to verify or prove its authenticity.I have a painting on my wall that I like to look at. I might sell it some day. But a painting is not a means of payment or a unit of account. It's a store of value for sure, but a pretty volatile one.
Revolut is just a layer on top of fiat/stocks/crypto. It provides the payment function and acts as a custodian (introducing counter-party risk of course), but the unit of account and store of value are ultimately functions of the underlying fiat currencies, stocks or even crypto, that you're holding in your revolut account .So don't think my "use" of a painting is vaguely comparable to my "use" of Revolut which functions for payments, unit of account, and a store of value.
If your painting could somehow be digitally split into fractions and transmitted on a decentralized network, then it very much has some strong characteristics that would allow it to be a means of payment (with certain advantages that no other means of payment has) and maybe even a unit of account. Volatility - has been discussed to death - so I won't rake over the coals anymore other than to acknowledge that it's far from optimal - but where we disagree is that this will change over time.I have a painting on my wall that I like to look at. I might sell it some day. But a painting is not a means of payment or a unit of account. It's a store of value for sure, but a pretty volatile one.
So don't think my "use" of a painting is vaguely comparable to my "use" of Revolut which functions for payments, unit of account, and a store of value.
That's 65% nursing losses of 75%. Yep, sure is a store of value.- around 65% of all bitcoin has not been involved in any transaction in over a year.
He said > 1 year. Last I checked, BTC has been around for quite a few years. You'll notice a few hype cycles below. None of them killed it - and neither will this one.That's 65% nursing losses of 75%. Yep, sure is a store of value.
A bit off topic. I was referring to the store of value motif.He said > 1 year. Last I checked, BTC has been around for quite a few years. You'll notice a few hype cycles below. None of them killed it - and neither will this one.
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It takes some act of faith to keep "using" it as a store of value as it falls from 70k to 16k.I use my bitcoin every day as a store of value.
another advantage of a painting is that you can always throw a can of vegetable soup at it if you wake up annoyed some morningI have a painting on my wall that I like to look at. I might sell it some day. But a painting is not a means of payment or a unit of account. It's a store of value for sure, but a pretty volatile one.
So don't think my "use" of a painting is vaguely comparable to my "use" of Revolut which functions for payments, unit of account, and a store of value.
By cherry picking market tops? I've seen this movie before.A bit off topic. I was referring to the store of value motif.
See above. You can decide to cast aside the cherry picked timelines and acknowledge the trend on a lower time preference any day you want Duke.It takes some act of faith to keep "using" it as a store of value as it falls from 70k to 16k.
Well, when the cherry is the last 12 months it is a bit low hanging. You're having to reach higher and higher to reach your cherries.The cultist is right there in the mirror staring back at you Duke. Why? Because in over 5 years of discussion anytime you've taken to refer to btc-related timeframes, you'll cherry pick that timeframe to meet your bias.
No. What that tells me (not that I needed confirmation) is that you're going to use that $67k high mark in every timeframe between now and whenever it meets that price target again (just as you did with the $20k high for the previous cycle). Because today you talk about 12 months - every other time, you've set X number of months to heighten the difference. Like I said - I've seen this movie before.Well, when the cherry is the last 12 months it is a bit low hanging. You're having to reach higher and higher to reach your cherries.
To have a discussion where people offer opposing views? I can't imagine how that could ever be deemed to be 'silly'.....unless of course your thinking is that it's silly because you've decided there can only be one outcome here and no other. That's the part that I find silly regardless of whether or not bitcoin ultimately fails or succeeds.This is all getting a bit silly at this stage.
We started off with cheerleaders going on about microstrategy and how bitcoin on the balance sheet was a sign of corporate acceptance. That hasn't worked out very well.
According to WHO it hasn't worked out well? Yes, you'll be able to list of commentary from the IMF (who feel threatened by Bukele's move -so much so that they've warned one other country they're not to dare go down the same path while making it a condition of a finance deal with Argentina.).We had El Salvador held up next and that hasn't worked out very well either.
We have seen major financial institutions get involved in crypto and people say it is because they see the value..eh, no. They see an opportunity to make money from simpletons....
In. Your. Opinion.We now have people moving from saying that Bitcoin is a currency to saying it is a commodity. It isn't either.
Anyone above who says they don't understand it has hit the nail on the head.
Well, kudos. Let this 'simpleton' award you a gold star - because you've actually achieved something that it seems some others can't. You've proven that you've been able to accept that you had to adjust your view on something and that your initial take was wayward.I used to sell CDO's, CDO squared and eventually CDO cubed for a living. I convinced myself that these were great products. Then I realised they were products made by people way smarter than me than who made money and ran.
You felt stupid because you reassessed and came to a different conclusion? I guess now I know why I was called an 'idiot' here many months ago.People like me were left feeling completely stupid.
bitcoin will be no different.
That's an absolute statement of yours from 2018 - which is now obsolete.And that is the problem with Bitcoin. It has severe scalability problems. Look at how long it can take a transaction to be verified currently. That problem won't be solved.
What 'social cost'? If you're referring to someone deciding to use BTC to some degree or other as a store of value and that they would have to deal with the 'social cost' of bitcoin failing, that's the individuals decision. Nobody should be making a financial decision if they're not prepared to take responsibility for that decision. And to that point, you'll notice that in TradFi oftentimes there are bailouts as the fiat money system backstops the whole show. There is no such thing in the crypto world - it's a pure capitalist view - sans bailout.People will make money but they will be the minority.....Good luck to them but i hope the social cost is worth it....
You could go short on Bitcoin !? If not, why not ...A good day for common sense. Trump and Bitcoin on their death throes. I really should suppress this schadenfreude.
many many varied uses for many different types of crypto - I am not surprised no-one has explained it to you. Volumes and volumes of explanations required, to be an expert.This is it. And I've yet to come across a single person that can explain its value in simple terms, which suggests to me that they don't understand it either.
I have been involved in a transaction where crypto was exchanged as a means of payment costing tens of thousands only. Regular payment via a high-street institution would have cost about 250,000 dollars in fees.Probably none. I am talking about use case as a means of payment.
I've said this before. I lead a boring life and my financial transactions are extremely legal and dull. There is absolutely no reason for me to use bitcoin as a means of payment for anything at all.
As an asset class it produces no income and has extreme volatility so is of no interest to me.
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