"I am moving to the Isle of Man to avoid CGT on my crypto gains"

Your friend would have to be non-resident for 3 full tax years to cease being ordinarily resident and therefore no longer subject to Irish CGT on his crypto gains. So from now, it would be 1 January 2022 before he would be able to sell and escape Irish CGT - if there are any gains left by then - which, as you say, is a big risk. If he had a very substantial gain, he could sell half now and then make the move and hope/pray that the crypto gains don't disappear in the next 3 years and 8 months.

That's one way of doing it to hedge your bets but I personally would rather pay the CGT now than risk spending 3 years overseas to potentially end up with the same amount or less. It's a large chunk of your time to give up for something that's not certain. That's assuming that the only reason he would be moving is to save tax.
 
I am not sure why we are all so sure that bitcoin investors don't want to pay CGT. Would we have the same conversation if the ISE was up by 1,000%? No we wouldn't. Let's try to keep our bias in check. In another thread, apparently I am a scammer, in this one a tax evader, I am missing sex offender yet, but I am confident somebody will find a good reason for it.

Best,

Gus
 
I am not sure why we are all so sure that bitcoin investors don't want to pay CGT.
Why are you so sure that we are all so sure that bitcoin investors don't want to pay CGT? BB has asked about one friend who is a bitcoin investor.

And there are no easy decisions to not pay CGT. Revenue have rules and as long as you stick to the rules and report what you need to report, there is no 'not paying CGT' - it just doesn't arise. But it's not free - it comes at the cost of leaving your home for 3-4 years. That's too high a price (both socially and financially) for most people.
I personally think BB's friend is mad to not cash in now, pay the CGT and move on with his profits.
 
Why are you so sure that we are all so sure that bitcoin investors don't want to pay CGT?

It's the title of this thread

BB has asked about one friend who is a bitcoin investor.

He says he met him at a crypto event, maybe they became friends straight away, i am not sure and I don't know how relevant it is.

And there are no easy decisions to not pay CGT. Revenue have rules and as long as you stick to the rules and report what you need to report, there is no 'not paying CGT' - it just doesn't arise. But it's not free - it comes at the cost of leaving your home for 3-4 years. That's too high a price (both socially and financially) for most people.

I will certainly pay CGT if i ever sell, never thought about not paying, the existence of this thread is troublesome to me, not the act of paying taxes.

I personally think BB's friend is mad to not cash in now, pay the CGT and move on with his profits.

bitcoin is not about profits for me, but we all have different needs to fulfil. I would not sell a satoshi if i was in BB's brand new friend
 
It's the title of this thread
The title of the thread is not '(all) bitcoin investors want to move to IoM to avoid CGT'. It's about one person.
He says he met him at a crypto event, maybe they became friends straight away, i am not sure and I don't know how relevant it is.
It's not relevant that it's one friend or one acquaintance or one really weird randomer. The relevant word is 'one'. Not all bitcoins investors - or most bitcoin investors - just one bitcoin investor doing a perfectly legal thing. No-one was even saying anything judgy about a move to the IoM - just offering advice. I'm not sure how you have perceived anti-bitcoin-investor bias with respect to the tax issue in the replies to this thread.
 
It's perfectly legitimate for someone to legally reduce the amount of tax they pay.

It's likely that this might well appeal to holders of Bitcoin because they have made very sudden and very large gains.

It might also appeal to them because, on average, they would probably be younger and more tech-savvy. So it would be easier for them to move abroad and to work remotely.

Brendan
 
Hi Gus1970,

There is likely to be a greater level of tax evasion amongst Bitcoin investors relative to the general population.

Is there any evidence to support such a slur?

Well, yes there is: Coinbase, the Bitcoin trading platform was the most downloaded app in the US last year. Yet only a tiny number of Bitcoin gains have been reported to the IRS, circa 800 from memory. The IRS has a taskforce looking at the issue.
 
Hi Gordon

Is it possible, that despite the Coinbase downloads;

1) not everyone actually went and bought crypto
2) those who did may not have sold it yet
3) those who did sell may have suffered losses
4) of those who did sell and make gains in 2017, when is their due date to register those gains?
5) some are confused as to its actual asset class - perhaps adding it as 'other' or 'additional' income rather than declaring the sale of an asset.
 
Hi Gus1970,

There is likely to be a greater level of tax evasion amongst Bitcoin investors relative to the general population.

Is there any evidence to support such a slur?

Well, yes there is: Coinbase, the Bitcoin trading platform was the most downloaded app in the US last year. Yet only a tiny number of Bitcoin gains have been reported to the IRS, circa 800 from memory. The IRS has a taskforce looking at the issue.

Or Gus could just pop over to boards.ie and have a look at some of the threads where lots of people implied or explicitly stated an intention to not pay tax on crypto gains... let's stick it to the man etc...
 
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Well, yes there is: Coinbase, the Bitcoin trading platform was the most downloaded app in the US last year. Yet only a tiny number of Bitcoin gains have been reported to the IRS, circa 800 from memory. The IRS has a taskforce looking at the issue.

downloads > activations > funded > bought BTC > Sold them at a profit

Having runa a couple of startup myself I know very well that app download is a vanity metric we publish to inflate the impression of our success.
i used ">" as "greater than", I hope it is clear.

For example I have not sold a penny since I started buying in early 2013, I have coinbase, bitstamo, kraken, bitfinex, bitrex, kukoin and just about another 20 exchanges I use.
Not having sold makes me a tax compliant citizen, but looking at me with your parameters, I am 26 people that did not pay tax
 
Typical of the nonsense propagated by cryptocurrency enthuasiasts.

In a country of 300m people with the most advanced economy in the world, circa 800 people were reporting cryptocurrency transactions.

The IRS were able to secure information regarding a tightened cohort of 15,000 users who were transacting at a level of $20,000 or more during the period that circa 800 people were making cryptocurrency-related tax returns. The non-tightened number of users was circa 480,000.

How anyone can contend that cryptocurremcies aren’t subject to widespread tax evasion is beyond me.
 
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How anyone can contend that cryptocurremcies aren’t subject to widespread tax evasion is beyond me.

First, I didn't realise i was living in America, second, I do pay all my taxes and all the people I know owning crypto pay taxes, hence in my context of knowledge, I contend

Back at you o the "nonsense propagated"
 
First, I didn't realise i was living in America, second, I do pay all my taxes and all the people I know owning crypto pay taxes, hence in my context of knowledge, I contend

Back at you o the "nonsense propagated"

Where was it suggested that you live in America?

Your anecdotal evidence in respect of your own position or that of your friends is completely irrelevant.

We have hard data regarding the biggest Western economy in the world; it’s reasonable to contend that it’s representative of other Western economies.
 
Is there any evidence to support such a slur?

Well, yes there is: Coinbase, the Bitcoin trading platform was the most downloaded app in the US last year.
Coinbase was not the most downloaded app in the US last year - it wasn't even in the top 20. For a brief window (days/hours?) at the height of the bitcoin mania, it was the most downloaded. Across the whole year, the more likely apps (Snapchat, Youtube, Facebook, Whatsapp etc.) were downloaded way more often.
 
Coinbase was not the most downloaded app in the US last year - it wasn't even in the top 20. For a brief window (days/hours?) at the height of the bitcoin mania, it was the most downloaded. Across the whole year, the more likely apps (Snapchat, Youtube, Facebook, Whatsapp etc.) were downloaded way more often.

Nitpick much?

In December, it reached No 1 on the App Store charts.

Is the contention that Coinbase is not that popular, or that 800 tax returns is about right?
 
Nitpick much?

In December, it reached No 1 on the App Store charts.
You have a strange definition of nitpicking. If you said the app was #4 and I pulled you up to snark that it was actually only #5, THAT would be nitpicking. Saying it was THE #1 app (ahead of facebook, whatsapp, snapchat - quite an achievement) last year when it wasn't even in the top 20 was just incorrect - even if it had the briefest of brief stints on the top of the charts for a couple of hours/days as people downloaded it to have a look.
Is the contention that Coinbase is not that popular, or that 800 tax returns is about right?
The contention is that Coinbase was not the #1 app last year.
 
downloads > activations > funded > bought BTC > Sold them at a profit

Having runa a couple of startup myself I know very well that app download is a vanity metric we publish to inflate the impression of our success.
i used ">" as "greater than", I hope it is clear.

For example I have not sold a penny since I started buying in early 2013, I have coinbase, bitstamo, kraken, bitfinex, bitrex, kukoin and just about another 20 exchanges I use.
Not having sold makes me a tax compliant citizen, but looking at me with your parameters, I am 26 people that did not pay tax

When you say you haven't sold, are you saying you've never bought/exchanged one crypto for another?

Because if you, for example, acquired a holding of a new crypto and paid for it using BTC, that is a disposal of BTC and subject to CGT (if the disposal realises a gain, which it would if you were holding BTC since 2013...).
 
When you say you haven't sold, are you saying you've never bought/exchanged one crypto for another?

Yes

Because if you, for example, acquired a holding of a new crypto and paid for it using BTC, that is a disposal of BTC and subject to CGT (if the disposal realises a gain, which it would if you were holding BTC since 2013...).

And i am aware, as you probably knew already
 
Where was it suggested that you live in America?

Your anecdotal evidence in respect of your own position or that of your friends is completely irrelevant.

We have hard data regarding the biggest Western economy in the world; it’s reasonable to contend that it’s representative of other Western economies.

Sorry Gordon, I had actually misunderstood your message. I messed it up, you are right
 
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