How to pay utilities after someone has passed. solicitor & children as executor

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torbie

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Hello All

I have an elderly parent and Im thinking ahead as to what duties will fall to me and my sister when the inevitable happens :-( . Myself, my sister and a solicitor are names as executor. My father died 10 years ago and it was the same set up but obviously everything went to my mother. My father died suddenly as we were in no state to deal with anything. My mother and father had a joint account so my mother was just able to continue with services etc. the big funeral bill went through the estate and solicitor.
We had a horrible huge solicitor bill to pay at the end and it took me years to realise that we were all executors.

Im wondering now can I minimise costs as I have a slight bit more understanding of the process.

My mother has an account in her name only and alot of Direct Debit to pay bills. I know bills and utilities etc are paid from the estate. Do most people pay from their own money and reimburse themselves? If this is the case Im thinking that I will give the solicitor the receipts and will basically have to pay him to give me my own money back? But we are all executor, so should my sister and I be able to have access to the estate money too as there are 3 executors names? We are both stay at home mothers with not alot of cash flow, but there is more than enough money in the estate to pay for bills etc and skip hire to clean up the house (which will be a massive job as the house is packed full).

My sister and I do all her food shopping and paying bills outside of the Direct Debits. We were thinking of setting up a joint account in both our names and moving some money 6k to have for the future bills and let it sit there.

So my main question is - would we have to pay a solicitor to give us back our own money but all 3 of us are names as executor. Do all 3 of us not have the same 'powers' to access the estate funds and fulfil the duties of sorting out the house paying bills, property tax etc.

What are you suggestions/thoughts? - thanks
 
You could ask your mam to change the will to make just you and your sister executors and explain it is to avoid these big bills.
 
Why not talk to your mother about this now while she is still alive. Suggest she change her will to remove the solicitor as executor, this way you and your sister can appoint your own solicitor and agree costs up front.

She can also plan and pay for her own funeral with a funeral director in advance which is the single biggest cost after death.

If you and your sister currently pay all bills do you have all receipts kept and logged. It may or may not be needed after death as queries may arise if you are looking for the money to cover these costs. Are you suggesting you get the €6K from your mum? You would need to be careful that it is clear that this is not a gift but an advance to pay bills.

Once the bank has been informed the account holder has died the account will be cease to pay out until probate has been granted, I don’t know the exact technicalities but for some specific bills, like house insurance, the executor will be able to pay those bills from the deceased account. Each bank has a bereavement section and policy about this. Check online for more details.
 
torbie said:
We were thinking of setting up a joint account in both our names and moving some money 6k to have for the future bills and let it sit there.
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On my parent’s instruction and with the full knowledge of all siblings, I had some of my parents money to pay for the funeral and all expenses until probate granted and house sold. Worked great for us.
 
torbie said:
Myself, my sister and a solicitor are names as executor.
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Three executors has the potential for making things very complicated. Why not just one?

In any case it's one of the executor's (or executors') responsibilities to keep paying stuff like utility bills and, as suggested above, there are ways and means for this to be done during probate.
 
torbie said:
What are you suggestions/thoughts? - thanks
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Have you read this excellent Key Post?

You have already seen the costs of having a solicitor as executor when your father, may he RIP, passed. I agree 100% with @ClubMan, three executors is unnecessarily complicated and expensive. To avoid a repeat, go through the key post together and suggest to your mother that she changes her will to name a single daughter as executor.

There are ways to keep bills paid and monies lodged without moving monies around or creating new accounts to be tracked. You can do this by presenting the death certificate, will and executor's id (passport, driving licence, etc.) to the institutions concerned (banks, utility companies, etc) and having the name on the accounts changed to "Representatives of the late [name of deased]" The institutions can make copies of these key documents for the their records and the accounts can operate as normal, pre-probate.

HTH
 
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Having recently gone through this, I would definitely open a joint account now and start paying all bills from this account, it may seem a lot of hassle but its much easier now than after your mother has passed.

While the banks do make arrangements to pay essential bills after the account holder has died, its still hassle that you won't need at the time -- I think its best to make space in your life for mourning by sorting out financial stuff in advance.

In our case, I didn't want to apply for probate myself so I got quotes from 3 solicitors based on me pulling all the information together and presenting it in a final form -- I ended up agreeing a fixed price for the job which I was happy with.

Its also worth asking your mother if she has any accounts or investments that your not aware of e.g. prize bonds, paper shares, life policies, LPT, pension etc
 
Hello All

Thanks for the replies. I dont think we can change the Will now as mom has Dementia. She thinks she does all the banking, shopping etc. She cant get out of the house without help and her in mind she drives around meeting friends for lunch. In her world her mother and sister are still alive and she sees them and visits them. Shes quite happy.

I think opening a joint Bank account might be best and move some of the money, but it would be without my mothers consent. Her memory is zero. She gifted my daughter some money to help pay for a masters. Literally 10mins after writing the cheques it was all new news to her. She would probably say its a great idea for me & my sister to set up a joint account, but then forget by the time she takes her next breath. But it might be the best solution as we would be able to account for all the moved money.
We have thought of bringing her to the Bank and getting our names on an account, but again she wont remember why we are there and she would probably say "just do what my daughters say" and it could look like she is being pressurised.
Anyway thanks for the suggestions.
 
I think you've posted two different issues. The first was after they've passed. Much of that advice is now void once you've said dementia is involved.

You would need to have power of attorney in place before they became unable to manage their affairs. But you're also too late for that either.

"...If someone doesn’t have an EPA, you can apply to the courts for a Decision-Making Representation Order. The court will appoint a decision-making representative to make decisions on behalf of the person.."


Can't advise you on that. We had EPA and joint accounts in place. I will say it becomes very difficult to deal with medical, banking or utilities once you're in that position.
 
Hi DannyBoyD
Yea I get it - I appreciate your comment.
We actually have an EPA and started to enact it and the solicitor quoted us €3k. We (stupidly) thought the mail bulk of this was paid for when my mother set it up 15 years ago and there might be a small nominal fee. We emailed a couple of questions over to the solicitor and he has not answered us. So now we dont trust him because he didnt reply to us. Its a bit messy alright.
Thanks for all the comments
 
This solicitor does not want to deal with you. He may not know it yet, but if you do not trust him it is bad business for him to continue dealing with you.

If your mother has lost capacity, you have an obligation to register the EPA; if there is unanimous agreement to a different course of action (the "let things muddle through" approach) well no solicitor can formally advise you to do this, but certainly it happens.

But right now, you need to take the papers from the solicitor that you do not trust and bring them to a solicitor that you do trust.
 
MOB said:
This solicitor does not want to deal with you. He may not know it yet, but if you do not trust him it is bad business for him to continue dealing with you.
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And really bad business for the client to continue to engage a solicitor in whom he has lost trust and where the option to move is available.
 
Reactions: MOB
torbie said:
We emailed a couple of questions over to the solicitor and he has not answered us. So now we dont trust him because he didnt reply to us.
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Are you sure he ever even saw your email?

A phone call to their office might be an idea...
 
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Hi All

Sorry I don't know how to requote things ! I'm not calling the solicitor. It was very clear we asked a question and it was not replied to.
For now Im going to park it. My mother is doing very well and actually in great form lately. Shes eating well and sleeping well and happy. I'm going to enjoy the lull and I'll revisit the issue during the summer.
 
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