how much do i owe

D

djkat

Registered User
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just need a bit of advice on this subject, Myself and my fiancee are splitting up and i want to know how much i owe her? story goes I sold my apartment in December and the two of us bought a house together Because she had no money to put into the house, we would of had to pay gifting tax which we didnt have,
As We were getting married within a year and i was putting in the money i was put on the deeds and two of us on the mortgage and we would sort this out when we got married (she was told to get advice before signing which she didnt)
I want to be fair on the amount to give her, The house was bought for 490,000, stamp duty 37,000 and the mortage we have is 362,000
She says i owe her a deposit on a new apartment which i feel i dont as she has only be paying the mortgage for 5 months and put no money into the new house, i know i wouldn't have got the house without her salary but can somebody tell me how much she is entitled to ?
thanks everyone for your advise
 
She says i owe her a deposit on a new apartment which i feel i dont as she has only be paying the mortgage for 5 months and put no money into the new house, i know i wouldn't have got the house without her salary but can somebody tell me how much she is entitled to ?
thanks everyone for your advise
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Very complicated - the basic answer is to look at each of your input into the property and calculate the the percentage of the houses present value that each of your monetary input accords to. Eg. house is worth 500k, you put in 100K, she put in 10K, then she would be entitled to 10/110*500=45k, but, did she also invest time searching for the house with you? Did she pay rent for your apartment prior to buying the house? Did she help with the DIY/decorating (if applicable). Maybe you should also look at how much of a mortgage you would have got on your own and give her benefit for the remainder. Eg. House worth 500K, you would qualify for 250K on your own at that time. House now worth 550K, so she is entitled to half the gain.
Basically in this instance, personally (depending on the circumstances of the breakup), I'd give her half of the increase in value (she's possibly lost her FTB status because of this purchase), or if you feel that's too much, i'd total the amount of mortgage repayments you both made - and divide the gain in value between you based on the ratio of mortgage repayments you both made.
 
Did you draw up a co-ownership agreement with your solicitor when buying the property?
 
Hi Kiddo

No there was not a co-ownership signed up as we were getting married within the year, Herself was told to see a seperate solictor which she didnt,
 
You need to get the house Valued....

The House cost you €527000 of which basic maths shows you paid €165000 cash. Your Mortgage is €3620000.

Current Value of House
Minus Mortgage Amount (362000.00)
Minus Your Initial Spend (165000.00)
Divided by 2 (You Increase in Equity and Her Increase in Equity)

So if the house was valued at €550,000 you would owe her €11,500.00

This is assuming she put no money up front for the property.
 
Thats a pity. Breaking up is hard enough on the both of you without trying to sort finances out amicably.

If its any help we drew one up when buying our house as we weren't married at the time. My now husband put in more of the deposit than I did but we paid the mortgage, bills and other expenses 50/50. Our agreement stated in the event of a split the property would be valued by 3 auctioneers and the average valuation taken. The "profit" to be split would be the value less the outstanding mortgage. The first 10% (ie the deposit) of the "profit" would be split in proportion to our share of the deposit and the balance to be split 50/50.

I hope you can both come to some agreement without too much wrangling.
 
You could also look at it like this...

House cost 527,000.

Your half = (mortgage of 362k / 2) + 165k = 346k, or 65.65%.
Her Half = (mortgage of 362k / 2) = 181k, or 34.35%.

Say current valuation (Kiddo's avg of 3 valuation is a good idea) = 550k.

That means that you're entitled to 361k, she's entitled to 189k. Remainder of mortgage is split evenly between the two of you, say it's 360k left so 180k each.

End result, you owe her €9k.

I'd also add a fair amount for furniture, etc. which you may have paid for jointly.
 
Bad to hear that mate,a lot of couples seem to be splitting after buying these days.

Was it agreed at the begining that ownership of property would be 50:50?
If answer was yes then they fact that you provided a large deposit means you had less percentage of the debt/mortgage than her and in theory she should have been paying higher % of repayments than you.
so say you brought 100kcash to table and you took a 400k mortgage for a 500k house then if you owned 50% of house your part of mortgage would be only 150k and added to your 100k deposit would make 250k (or 50% of 500k value home). so she would be taking on 250k in debt and should have been paying 250/400 or 62.5 % of the repayments.i presume she didnt pay more than 50% of mortgage payments in the time you owned the house? if this is the case then work out how much in repayments she should have paid,assume she owes that to you ,then work out the net equity in house and take the extra part of repayments she owes you from the net equity and thats what you owe her on an assumed 50:50 ownership structure.
 
We're all complicating things too much, DJ if you put in the figures, we can all come up with calculations. Let us know the following:
Current valuation
Deposit paid by you
Deposit paid by her
Purchase price
Stamp duty and how much paid by both of ye
Time spent in upgrading property by each of you
Money spent on upgrading the property by both of you
Total mortgage payments since you've moved in and paid by which of you
How much of a mortgage you'd have qualified for on your own
Whether or not you're happy to keep the house
 
Glenbhoy said:
We're all complicating things too much, DJ if you put in the figures, we can all come up with calculations. Let us know the following:
Current valuation
Deposit paid by you
Deposit paid by her
Purchase price
Stamp duty and how much paid by both of ye
Time spent in upgrading property by each of you
Money spent on upgrading the property by both of you
Total mortgage payments since you've moved in and paid by which of you
How much of a mortgage you'd have qualified for on your own
Whether or not you're happy to keep the house
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What her deposit was is largely irrelevant if they decided at start that the Ownership was 50:50 ,the only question remains has she paid her share of the finance costs.any other relatively minor costs can be added/subtracted after,principle concern is was it intended by both to be 50:50 ownership?
 
thanks everyone for their advice, its hard enough try to deal with the splitting up but sometimes you dont need the hassle of who owns what and how much,
 
Hi Gelnbhoy

The house was bought for 490,000 plus stamp duty of 37,000

The mortgage taken out was 362,000

I paid the the stamp and the the deposit which was in total 165,000

she paid for the new kitchen 4,900 and i paid for the new plaster and etc amount 2,000

we bought the house in December so not much of the mortgage is paid off but it is 1400 a month which i pay 800 and she pays 600

If i was to go on my own i would of got a mortgage of 240,000

The house is worth approx 550,000

Thanks again for the advice
 
djkat said:
Hi Gelnbhoy

The house was bought for 490,000 plus stamp duty of 37,000

The mortgage taken out was 362,000

I paid the the stamp and the the deposit which was in total 165,000

she paid for the new kitchen 4,900 and i paid for the new plaster and etc amount 2,000

we bought the house in December so not much of the mortgage is paid off but it is 1400 a month which i pay 800 and she pays 600

If i was to go on my own i would of got a mortgage of 240,000

The house is worth approx 550,000

Thanks again for the advice
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So even though you brought more cash to table she pays less per month? was your plan that you would own 50% of property or more? the figures suggest you own or should have owned well over 50% .forget about the mortgage you would have gotten alone as this is same for her-she could'nt probably get a mortgage big enough to buy anywhere in dublin.
 
You owe her around half the increase in value(after stamp duty added to purchase price) or approx 12k IF it was a 50:50 deal at start. she should have been paying 73% of mortgage or 1000euro month and you should have been paying 400euro. so she owes you an extra 400 a month for the five months or 2k which wipes out difference between kitchen and plasterer
 
djkat said:
If i was to go on my own i would of got a mortgage of 240,000
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For you to keep the house now won't you still have to remortgage into your own name as for her to get a new mortgage she will have to be mortgage free.
 
DoctorEvil said:
For you to keep the house now won't you still have to remortgage into your own name as for her to get a new mortgage she will have to be mortgage free.
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yeah thats if you keep the house yourself in which case you may have to tell the bank your gonna rent a room etc to increase your income or get some one to take her share in house/mortgage
 
Okay, looking at the figures, she has made minimal contributions, here are my calculations:
Property cost + stamp duty (who paid legal fees?) 527K
Your share: Half mortgage 181K Stamp and Deposit 165K
Her share: Half mortgage 181K

Current valuation 550K - Your share (181+165)/527)*550 = 361K
Her share (181/527)*550 = 189K
Mortgage outstanding - Circa 360K you owe half each therefore her overall payout should not be much in excess of 189k (her share of value) less 180K her share of the mortgage outstanding (check with your bank for an accurate figure).
That leaves 9k and whilst that takes care of her investment in terms of mortgage repayments and kitchen, i would probably give her circa 12-15k, which would also account for part of your share of the gain. She could have no arguments there.
You will have to remortgage, but you should'nt be too far away from getting what you require - ask sarah or some of the experts on here they'll have you sorted in no time.
 
Glenbhoy said:
Okay, looking at the figures, she has made minimal contributions, here are my calculations:
Property cost + stamp duty (who paid legal fees?) 527K
Your share: Half mortgage 181K Stamp and Deposit 165K
Her share: Half mortgage 181K

Current valuation 550K - Your share (181+165)/527)*550 = 361K
Her share (181/527)*550 = 189K
Mortgage outstanding - Circa 360K you owe half each therefore her overall payout should not be much in excess of 189k (her share of value) less 180K her share of the mortgage outstanding (check with your bank for an accurate figure).
That leaves 9k and whilst that takes care of her investment in terms of mortgage repayments and kitchen, i would probably give her circa 12-15k, which would also account for part of your share of the gain. She could have no arguments there.
You will have to remortgage, but you should'nt be too far away from getting what you require - ask sarah or some of the experts on here they'll have you sorted in no time.
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glenbhoy your assuming just because djkat paid the deposit and stamp duty that he gets a bigger % of the property which doesnt have to be the case.Most couples buying toghether intend to own the house 50:50,if one partner brings more cash in at start the other partner can balance this out by assuming more of the debt and pay more of the servicing/repayments.
say me and you wanted to buy a business and i had 20% of purchase price but we both wanted the ownership to be 50% i would use the 20% as deposit and a bank gives us the 80% as debt. i have already put in 20% so then take on 37.5% of debt to bring my share of ownership to 50% ,i would then pay 37.5% of repayments on debt and you would pay 62.5% and own 50% of business too.
 
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