TheBigShort
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Again, you’re oscillating wildly between different points.
First it was “working people”; then it was people on the minimum wage; now you’re back to people on “low or middle incomes”.
Which is it?
And do people have some sort of entitlement to live and work in the same suburb?
Very well saidIn my view of the world people don't have many entitlements.
Nevertheless a society needs people at all levels to function. And those people need somewhere to live and educational opportunities for their children.
Until recently this was not an issue in Ireland, (for the most part it still isn't outside Dublin). When I was a kid, cleaners and industrialists and everybody in between lived in close enough proximity to function as a whole. A teacher perhaps could not afford to live in the most desirable street, but they could live in the next street over.
This has changed because now there are enough people with more money than teachers to displace them, (and cleaners and shop workers) from entire districts. I agree with Gordon that if an individual wants to live in a certain area then they can make the choices that will result in earning enough to be able to afford that. Of course if they do they won't be teaching.
From societies point of view that leaves no teachers in Ranelagh, (as an example, I couldn't find Ranelagh on a map).
There are two reasons behind this, the rise of well paid jobs in sectors that did not exist a generation ago, pushing teachers etc. down the food chain. And what is charmingly called "assortive mating", people with high earning capacity marry people with high earning capacity, and of course vice versa. That leaves some families with two above average incomes and some with two, or one, below average.
I see no reason why society should intervene to fix this for the individual. If you cannot afford to live in Ranelagh, society should not displace someone else to give you that opportunity. And no matter how many new houses are built they will not all be in the most desirable areas.
However TBS has a point that no teachers in Ranelagh is a problem for society, not just for the people who want to work 22 hours a week 9 months a year and live in the most desirable part of town. (I know I should avoid a swipe at teachers, but it's hard).
I dont have any ready solution. I know that London was at this point 25 years ago, and has not really resolved it. I worked there is the 1990s and our company wanted to employ a specialist engineer. We finally found a guy in Manchester, he was delighted to work in the cutting edge area we specialised in, came to us for a month, then said sorry, but with a wife and 4 kids he had a 4 bed house and a large garden in Manchester, in London he could have afforded a 2 bed flat. We could have paid him 3 times the salary of the other engineers, but that is not the way the world works.
I dont have any ready solution. I know that London was at this point 25 years ago, and has not really resolved it. I worked there is the 1990s and our company wanted to employ a specialist engineer. We finally found a guy in Manchester, he was delighted to work in the cutting edge area we specialised in, came to us for a month, then said sorry, but with a wife and 4 kids he had a 4 bed house and a large garden in Manchester, in London he could have afforded a 2 bed flat. We could have paid him 3 times the salary of the other engineers, but that is not the way the world works.
1) The housing sector has by and large been left to the private investment market.
2) The State, and successive governments, have through their policy decisions, diluted or neglected their understanding/responsibility of what housing actually is and what it is for.
The result being, over the long-term, allowing housing to be treated as a commodity to buy and sell for profit.
Housing is not a commodity and should not be treated as such. It is a fundamental necessity for the functioning of a civil society.
So if the population has an increasing number of homeless, or if increasing numbers are in rent and mortgage arrears, then the prospect of social upheaval is increasing all the time - which is no good for anybody.
The State has shown itself in the past as being able to deliver housing for the population on a large scale.
It has shown itself to be inadequate in the management of that housing.
. If you mean that the state has left the private sector to get on with it and not fiddled about with constantly changing regulations that is not true
Things that are bought and sold for profit are usually in greater supply than things that are supplied at state dictate.
Air travel to and from Ireland mushroomed when the state gave up its monopoly. Radio thrived when the state gave up its monopoly.
It hasn't happened in London.
In the past. Now many councils have rent arrears in excess of 30%. They cannot manage the housing stock they have much less build and manage new housing on a scale.
The state cannot roll out rural broadband, which is childs play. Just string a few wires along pre-existing poles. How could it build a major housing program.
I agree, there is a mismatch between State interference and free trade enterprise.
With respect, this is typical of the mindset that devalues housing as a commodity or a convenience.
To put it simply, without the existence of housing there never would have been either aeroplane or radio.
Homeless, dysfunctional, primitive societies dont have a great track record in progressive inventions.
Settled, housed societies do.
I never said it has. I said the prospect of social upheaval increases.
I agree, that is what I said. The State has shown itself as being inadequate to manage housing.
Ok, that is moving to other areas which are debatable. As I understand private sector companies are withdrawing from tender because they cannot deliver the service.
But in any case, broadband et al, is insignificant relative to housing.
To compare, how long has housing been in existence, and were there protests back then about broadband?
The point being, to reinforce - housing is critical to society. Second only to oxygen and food?
There are lots of states in the EU who have no problem managing its housing stock and collecting rents on same,So what do you suggest. The State is unable to manage its stock of housing and to collect rent payable on same. You don't want the private market to supply housing as its unaffordable, so exactly what do you suggest?
There are lots of states in the EU who have no problem managing its housing stock and collecting rents on same,
The Minister is now asking the same people to help solve the housing problem in there area who are not able to collect rents on the houses they already own ,
Sorry the old system and the people ran them need to be got rid ofYou still did not answer the question.
Sorry the old system and the people ran them need to be got rid of
Replaced by a system like the old land commission there was no problem collecting the annuity land/house increases in value it could be sold on with the annuity still payable until paid off in full to the state,
Have you looked at how the land commission worked there seamed to be no problem collecting rent ,
The Land Commission. Bless. One of the biggest rackets in the history of the State where private property was forcibly confiscated from its lawful owners and reappropriated to lackeys of the ruling political parties.
Thankfully no modern Supreme Court would for an instant tolerate its abuse of process and contempt for private property rights.
I'll gladly correct myself if and when you prove me wrong. You haven't done that.If you check the land commission is older than the state check and correct yourself,
So what do you suggest. The State is unable to manage its stock of housing and to collect rent payable on same. You don't want the private market to supply housing as its unaffordable, so exactly what do you suggest?
However, the private sector in itself is insufficient to deliver housing stock - overbuilding when there is profit, underbuilding when margins are tight.
.
I'll gladly correct myself if and when you prove me wrong. You haven't done that.
I suggested looking at the system used by the land commission as a system that worked ,The Land Commission. Bless. One of the biggest rackets in the history of the State where private property was forcibly confiscated from its lawful owners and reappropriated to lackeys of the ruling political parties.
Thankfully no modern Supreme Court would for an instant tolerate its abuse of process and contempt for private property rights.
That's precisely why we have building and zoning regulations and a system of planning permission. Which the State can tighten to restrict overbuilding and loosen to correct underbuilding. Unfortunately our betters have forgotten the latter.
A system like the old land commission for housing would get over the under building problem and take the problem away from the local vested interests for good,That's precisely why we have building and zoning regulations and a system of planning permission. Which the State can tighten to restrict overbuilding and loosen to correct underbuilding. Unfortunately our betters have forgotten the latter.
I would suggest that the last time regulations were loosened to correct underbuilding that it didn't end up too well.
I suggested looking at the system used by the land commission as a system that worked
How does that work, price controls?A system like the old land commission for housing would get over the under building problem and take the problem away from the local vested interests for good,
Planning for new housing should reflect the wages paid for work and the people who do this work in each local area first,
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