How can I get my Supplementary pension without having to pretend I'm looking for a job

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stoves1

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I retired from an garda siochana in May having reached compulsary retirement age of 60, I Joined in 1999 ( post 1995) having had a few years army service from the 1980,s on retirement i was entitled to circa 90% of a full garda pension, as i joined post 1995 i paid class A PRSI, . This means i recieve circa two thirds of my pension from dept of justice , but have to exhaust social welfare benefits before i can get the other third ( Supplementary).
Since May this year i have to queue at the post office every week to get my jobseekers benifit and apparently i will have to do this for nine months until benefit runs out i am then assesed by social welfare , where i have already told them i have a capital lump sum saved.
Apparently when i get a letter from social welfare to say im not entitled to social welfare i then send this to Justice pension section, and i will then recieve my supplementary pension.
My queries are - I am 60yrs of age i was retired from an garda siochana, (maximum age 60) I am not interested in working again, I have now recieved a letter from social welfare to say i have to attend a compulsory jobs/course seminar as part of a group of jobseekers, if i do not attend my benefit will be reduced or cut.
Any advice on how i can recieve my Supplementary pension without going through this charade and enjoy my retirement? Many Thanks
 
You will certainly have to get confirmation from Social Welfare that you are not entitled to any Benefit from them. I don't know anyone who has done this but in theory if you were to declare to SW that you are no longer looking for work and, as a consequence you are disqualified from the JB payment, then you should be able to claim your Supplementary Pension. The condition is that you you are not entitled to any SW Benefit.
As I say, I can't testify that this works but I can't see why not in principle. You will no longer get any PRSI credits from SW if you do this. This may have implications for your State Pension if you do not have 40 years worth of PRSI. If you remain on JB you can continue to "sign" for credits (once a year) even after your JB ends.
As an aside, most organisations have a form that they ask you to get completed by SW rather than you getting a letter from SW.
 
Early Riser said:
You will certainly have to get confirmation from Social Welfare that you are not entitled to any Benefit from them. I don't know anyone who has done this but in theory if you were to declare to SW that you are no longer looking for work and, as a consequence you are disqualified from the JB payment, then you should be able to claim your Supplementary Pension. The condition is that you you are not entitled to any SW Benefit.
As I say, I can't testify that this works but I can't see why not in principle. You will no longer get any PRSI credits from SW if you do this. This may have implications for your State Pension if you do not have 40 years worth of PRSI. If you remain on JB you can continue to "sign" for credits (once a year) even after your JB ends.
As an aside, most organisations have a form that they ask you to get completed by SW rather than you getting a letter from SW.
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Thank you Early Riser, yes i have 40yrs of prsi contributions , working since 18yrs of age, i will ask justice pensions if they have a form that i can get completed by SW, ( but i get a feeling this is new to our organisation) and as a garda does 30yrs service for full pension, and so in 2025 ie 30yrs from 1995 this will probably then be addressed.
But it effects me now and i am finding it very hard to get answers.
 
@stoves1
Have you contacted your Representative Association for advice? Here is an extract from the GRA pension guidance document (https://www.gra.ie/documents/GRA-Pensions-Booklet-Jul17-red.pdf) :

3.8.15 Post-95 Gardaí : Supplementary Pension & Not Available for Work

Question: I have retired from An Garda Siochána. Do I have to make myself
available for work in order to receive a Supplementary Pension?
Answer: No. You do require a letter from DSP stating that you are not entitled
to social welfare benefits. Justice will then pay you a supplementary
pension
Question: What happens if I declare that I am not available for work? Do I lose
my Supplementary Pension/Allowance?
Answer: No. You do require a letter from DSP stating that you are not entitled
to social welfare benefits. Justice will then pay you a supplementary
pension

As noted earlier, organisations usually have a Supplementary Pension questionnaire that they require you to have completed and stamped by SW, but maybe Justice is different.
 
I was onto justice pensions today, they said that they are not sure! with the acknowledgement that this situation is coming down the track and that they know about the quandry, but i have to exhaust all potential social welfare benifits, and was advised just to continue on jobseekers for a total of nine months!
Not ideal, and person i was speaking to not experienced in supplementary pensions and will contact previous post holder and come back to me. so for the moment i will attend the jobs/course seminar but really not interested!
 
One of the things to remember about this ridiculous situation is that supplementary pensions are dependent on you not working.
You say you have no interest in working, which is just as well. If you do one week of paid, prsi salaried work, you lose the entire supplementary element of your pension.
So, just keep that in mind when you do eventually, get your entitlements.
I'd be very grateful if you update your progress.
Hope you have a very enjoyable retirement.
 
I find it bizarre that the Garda/GRA don't have specific advice for these situations - is there no pre-retirement course for Garda?
 
Early Riser said:
@stoves1
Have you contacted your Representative Association for advice? Here is an extract from the GRA pension guidance document (https://www.gra.ie/documents/GRA-Pensions-Booklet-Jul17-red.pdf) :

3.8.15 Post-95 Gardaí : Supplementary Pension & Not Available for Work

Question: I have retired from An Garda Siochána. Do I have to make myself
available for work in order to receive a Supplementary Pension?
Answer: No. You do require a letter from DSP stating that you are not entitled
to social welfare benefits. Justice will then pay you a supplementary
pension
Question: What happens if I declare that I am not available for work? Do I lose
my Supplementary Pension/Allowance?
Answer: No. You do require a letter from DSP stating that you are not entitled
to social welfare benefits. Justice will then pay you a supplementary
pension

As noted earlier, organisations usually have a Supplementary Pension questionnaire that they require you to have completed and stamped by SW, but maybe Justice is different.
Click to expand...
I have seen this booklet before but the points highlighted are not what is happening in real life, i know people that contributed to that booklet but my understanding is that it is not an agreed document with Justice
 
Latest update from today, recieved a call from Dept of Justice pensions, was told that he thinks there are ongoing discussions between Justice and Social Welfare and his verbal advice to me was to carry on with the jobseekers benefit for 9 months as unfortunately the rule is i have to exhaust all prospective social welfare benifits before i can apply for my Supplementary, I have also written to one of our local TD,S Neale Richmond to ask about ending this Charade.
I will now seek advice from Citizens Information as per Sue Ellens advice
 
Allpartied said:
One of the things to remember about this ridiculous situation is that supplementary pensions are dependent on you not working.
You say you have no interest in working, which is just as well. If you do one week of paid, prsi salaried work, you lose the entire supplementary element of your pension.
So, just keep that in mind when you do eventually, get your entitlements.
I'd be very grateful if you update your progress.
Hope you have a very enjoyable retirement.
Click to expand...
Yes i do understand that if i take up employment i lose Supplementary, I just want to enjoy life with my full pension considering i also paid into it over my career
 
Latest Update, Hit a wall, nobody has an answer ( or doesnt want to know) even though i have given over 26 yrs service to the state, got a letter to attend a jobs info via Intreo which i did yesterday, then told after that i have to attend an individual activation meeting in 2 weeks time, and recieved a letter in the post this morning to warn me i have to attend ( if i really wanted a job i would get one in the morning, Im qualified as an electronics technician, i have a 2 year diploma in project management from university of limerick. But i just want to retire and recieve my proper pension. Frustrating really.
 
It's a farce and a charade. I suspect the reason for this is, so far, not many post 1995 entrants (even Gardai with their accelerated pension accrual) have reached retirement age. Senior civil service and union people are apathetic as many would be pre 1995, the issue doesn't affect them directly and anyway, they are winding down to their own retirements. Give it a few years and as large numbers of post 1995 people reach retirement age, the current apathetic approach will change to a reactive approach.

As an aside, AVC providers are regularly invited into public service workplaces to talk about pensions and, in my experience, conveniently forget to mention the existence of the supplementary pension. I wonder how many civil and public servants have taken out AVCs as a result of this.

Also, I read somewhere (may have been AAM) that the HSE were trying to apply an actuarial reduction to an early retiree's supplementary pension in spite of the fact that the supplementary isn't payable until normal retirement age.
 
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The Ghoul said:
Give it a few years and as large numbers of post 1995 people reach retirement age, the current apathetic approach will change to a reactive approach.
Click to expand...
No doubt there will be increasing numbers impacted in the coming years. But there will have been quite a few already. There were some branches of PS with Class A PRSI coordinated pensions since well before 1995. And even since then, there will be those with short service. For some of these it will suit to go the JSB route anyway as the payment will exceed the Supplementary for those with relatively short service. Also, many will need to add to their PRSI record for State Pension purposes and the credited contributions will suit.

Many will pursue other insurable work which would disqualify them from the Supplementary. Most others probably "play along" because it seems safest to do so (and the employers seem to expect it), but it would be interesting to hear about anyone who didn't and who were refused JSB as a result. On the face of it, it is hard to see on what grounds they could be refused the Supplementary as they didn't qualify for a Social Welfare payment "due to circumstances outside of their control".
 
stoves1 said:
i have to attend an individual activation meeting in 2 weeks time,
Click to expand...
The best way to approach this is to play along with the system. I fully understand your frustration, but try to put this aside. The staff in the intreo centers are friendly and helpful and are required to go through the official procedure. Treat them in a friendly and respectful manner and you will be fine. They will understand your position but they cannot tell you that you do not have to be available for and actively seeking work. Tell them what they want to hear. Don't state that you you just want to retire in peace.
The activation meeting is a box that the intreo staff need to tick.
 
bstop said:
The best way to approach this is to play along with the system. I fully understand your frustration, but try to put this aside. The staff in the intreo centers are friendly and helpful and are required to go through the official procedure. Treat them in a friendly and respectful manner and you will be fine. They will understand your position but they cannot tell you that you do not have to be available for and actively seeking work. Tell them what they want to hear. Don't state that you you just want to retire in peace.
The activation meeting is a box that the intreo staff need to tick.
Click to expand...
Thank you bstop for your kind words, my wife says the exact same, and of course i will treat the staff with courtesy as i know they are trying to do their job, but i really do want to retire in peace, i just got another message today from Intreo to say the activation meeting is cancelled and they will be in touch with another date! Just not used to dealing with beurocracy!
 
Have you contacted your union, or do you guys belong to one? I'd be certainly pushing them if they exist. Surely you're not the only one in this dilemma?
 
noproblem said:
Have you contacted your union, or do you guys belong to one? I'd be certainly pushing them if they exist. Surely you're not the only one in this dilemma?
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Update: having made political representation recieved the following from welfare "As MR/Mrs --- very specific circumstances fall between his compulsory retirement age and the requirement for him to exhaust his social welfare benefit before he recieves his full pension, the Area Manager responsible has asked the office concerned, to exclude Mr/Mrs --- from compulsory engagement"
I am very happy that i do not have to engage and when nine months are up i will probably be reassesed, fail welfare qualification and apparently then forward this failure notice to Justice pensions and i will then recieve my full pension.
My sympathies go to anybody who has to go through this in the future or to all post 1995 public servants who will be effected the same.
 
Interesting perspective on our welfare bureaucracy @stoves1.
Allpartied said:
One of the things to remember about this ridiculous situation is that supplementary pensions are dependent on you not working.
You say you have no interest in working, which is just as well. If you do one week of paid, prsi salaried work, you lose the entire supplementary element of your pension.
So, just keep that in mind when you do eventually, get your entitlements.
I'd be very grateful if you update your progress.
Hope you have a very enjoyable retirement.
Click to expand...

My father has recently been refused JSB as part of this process as he has taken on some board work, small fees involved <€10k p.a. It seems he is now not entitled to his benefits between ages 65 and 66 but will have his full entitlement from age 66! Is there any way around this "not working" condition, seems like a significant disincentive?
 
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