House was never declared as vacant or registered for LPT, advice needed.

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aerobubbles

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Grandparents house brought back into use by grandchild, the house was never declared as Vacant or registered or LPT. how can it now be declared for property tax without the parent who would still be the owner be hammered by tax
 
In the absence of anyone chasing then for LPT arrears, it is likely that the property was considered abandoned / derelict. In such cases planning permission is required to bring a house back into use, with that, all details must be brought into compliance with current building regulations, and not what (if anything) was in effect at time of purchase.

How long was it empty for?

I'd advise speaking with someone familiar with planning in the area to figure out the best way forward. There have been similar cases where authorities have demanded the demolition of renovated old properties.
 
aerobubbles said:
How can it now be declared for property tax without the parent who would still be the owner be hammered by tax
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Bear in mind that Revenue isn't interested in the Local Authority's requirements. What they're interested in is collecting all taxes due to the exchequer! Hence the person wishing to register the property for LPT would need to be able to prove that the house was derelict/uninhabitable until recently.

This could be done by a combination of before/after photographs (ideally dated), builder's invoices showing substantial works in recent years, proof that there was no electricity/water/sewage connection to the house for a number of years, etc.

From Revenue's website:-

Properties that have become suitable for use as a dwelling​

Your property may not have been previously liable for LPT if it was unsuitable for use as a dwelling. For example, a partially collapsed property with no sanitary facilities is not suitable for use as a dwelling.

However, if such a property was renovated, and is now suitable for use as a dwelling, it is liable for LPT. The property will become liable for LPT in 2024 if, on 1 November 2023, it is:

  • occupied
  • or
  • suitable for use as a dwelling.

What you need to do​

You will need to:

Click to expand...

Of course if it was suitable for occupation for a number of years before being registered, then rest assured that Revenue will be looking for their pound of flesh!
 
so what is the maximum fine levy in this case? say had all the connections but no windows doors bit of a roof
 
Revenue can charge 8% interest on unpaid LPT. However, they dont always charge it ( I dont know exactly when they do).

I would advise getting access to the Lpt account for the property, log in and see what is due. If you just pay for the previous years, there may not be any interest charged.
 
aerobubbles said:
so what is the maximum fine levy in this case? say had all the connections but no windows doors bit of a roof
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I suspect that Revenue will struggle to believe that any sane owner would have been paying an electricity charge for a number of years for a property with a leaking roof that wasn't habitable! ;) The important thing at this point is for the owners to approach them before they approach the owners!
 
they paid the bill all those years in hope someone would eventually do up the property, it was easier pay the standing charge which is all the bill was than pay reconnection charge.
Not on street view and there is no way of getting access to LPT account as one dose not exist this is the problem. if it could be paid it would be paid
 
Registering the property is easy, you can do that via Revenue.ie

Register a property for Local Property Tax (LPT)

How to register a property for Local Property Tax (LPT)
www.revenue.ie www.revenue.ie

My advice however would be to have a conversation with the council or revenue firstly as they may have a seperate process for old properties.

it has to be done, property can't be sold or probate granted in due course when needed without the LPT being paid.
 
aerobubbles said:
they paid the bill all those years in hope someone would eventually do up the property, it was easier pay the standing charge which is all the bill was than pay reconnection charge.
Not on street view and there is no way of getting access to LPT account as one dose not exist this is the problem. if it could be paid it would be paid
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Then, as I've already advised, start by registering the property for LPT now! Only then can it be paid.

As part of the registration process you'll need to calculate a realistic valuation for the property - the valuation date to use (assuming that it wasn't inhabitable in May 2013 which was the previous valuation date) is November 2021. [ https://www.revenue.ie/en/property/local-property-tax/valuing-your-property/index.aspx ]

Once registered you should consider trying to pay LPT arrears back to the date when the property first became habitable.

It may be a while before Revenue gets back to you to query the late registration - so I suggest that you use that time to accumulate as much evidence as you can to support any claim that the property was uninhabitable. Bear in mind that, as the onus was on the property owner to have declared the property uninhabitable back in 2013, they're facing an uphill struggle to avoid penalties.

See this link which sets out what should have been done in 2013.
 
thedaddyman said:
it has to be done, property can't be sold or probate granted in due course when needed without the LPT being paid.
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Good point, I think I'd prioritise resolving the planning issue first though. Little point in sorting that out and paying the bill only to be told that the LA won't grant permission. Can't be sold without that either.
 
As it happens I'm trying to deal with a property on which LPT was not paid for 10 years and trying to get Revenue to engage is a nightmare. I phoned them and the guy on the phone was very helpful and advised me to put the queries in via LPT online. But the 2000 character limit and the need to attach several documents precluded that. So I emailed the queries and attachments in to lpt@revenue.ie. And ... nothing. 10 days later I replied asking for an update. And ... nothing, so another week later, today I printed everything off and posted it to Limerick. Absolutely ridiculous service from them. As I have experienced lately with most of my Revenue MyAccount queries. Useless. I want to resolve the issue and pay the outstanding taxes (albeit with adjustments for incorrect information that they have - e.g. they incorrectly have the Household Charge as an outstanding liability and they have an incorrect property valuation for the 2013-2021 period) but they don't make it easy.
 
ClubMan said:
they incorrectly have the Household Charge as an outstanding liability
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I'm pretty sure this is deliberate. When I needed to sell for probate, rather than contest this, the woman on the line advised the quickest way to sort it was to pay it (€200) as there was no penalty. I did.
 
elcato said:
I'm pretty sure this is deliberate. When I needed to sell for probate, rather than contest this, the woman on the line advised the quickest way to sort it was to pay it (€200) as there was no penalty. I did.
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This is just one of the issues that I have, and I have the letters from the previous owner of the property proving that the Household Charge and NPPR liabilities were discharged before the property was sold. So I will certainly not be paying the HC again.
 
For what it's worth, printing the stuff off and posting it off to them eventually elicited a useful response from them and they have removed the previously discharged Household Charge from the account, corrected the 2013-2021 valuation, and dealt with the several other issues that I had. Unfortunately they won't reduce/discount the interest charged on arrears so I'll just have to pay that along with the arrears.
 
Duddaa said:
Is it on Google Street View? That allows you to go back in time. If it didn't have windows or doors and Google Street view shows this it's definitely derelict. You can't live in a house without windows or doors.
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My grand uncle lived in a house that fell in bit by bit around him until he eventually was forced to leave.
 
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