Homeless mother of 5 wants social housing

[TheBigShort]

Are you saying social welfare caused the advancement of modern societies?

It has assisted in the advancement of modern societies, yes of course. Why else would these societies adopt a social welfare model so?
In doing so, it means families with no income, or no obvious means to generate an income, will not starve. It means they won't need to beg on the city streets. This can be very beneficial if you are in the tourist trade for instance. From my perspective, when I holiday, I prefer not to encounter an undue amount of beggars.
The welfare state also prevents others (not all) from thievery and robbery. Again, helps businesses with insurance costs, makes business centres more attractive if people feel safe in them.
All of this, and much much more, has helped in the advancement of modern societies through higher standards of living, better education, better opportunities, increased wealth etc.

A couple struggling with their mortgage will not go and have 5 kids.

My neighbours have 5 kids, both working, struggling with their mortgage...

But can you not agree it was irresponsible to have so many while homeless?

I would agree that, if you agree that any generation that lived in poverty, were also irresponsible, including my grandparents?
Despite all 5 of their offspring developing careers for themselves, owning their own homes, and two owning their own businesses employing people.

 

[TheBigShort]

Transferred ? Why transferred. I acquired my small sliver of "all wealth" by working and investing. I didn't get it as a result of a transfer, and I certainly don't want to give it up in a transfer.

I would be very happy to see those who do all the work having ownership of all the wealth, it would happen a lot faster if taxes were reduced.

Staying on topic is one thing, but staying in topic is another.

 

[cremeegg]

Staying on topic is one thing, but staying in topic is another.

I was only responding to your comments.

And I had been congratulating myself for having resisted getting into the Famine to set you straight on that one as well.

 

[Firefly]

I would be very happy to see those who do all the work having ownership of all the wealth, it would happen a lot faster if taxes were reduced.

I think it depends on what you define as "work". Those flipping burgers should never expect to earn the same as those who design the process, the science behind it, those who take the financial risks in setting up or those that devise ingenious advertising campaigns...otherwise why would they bother? The central point being that that awfully used term "Value Add" comes into play. Some people are lucky to inherit wealth but for the vast majority it comes down to adding value and for that a market economy helps ensure that those who add most value get the most rewards.

 

[ant dee]

I would agree that, if you agree that any generation that lived in poverty, were also irresponsible, including my grandparents?

How could I say if what your grandparents did nearly 100 years ago was a good idea or not? Those were different times, I know little of what happened back then.

 

[qwerty5]

How could I say if what your grandparents did nearly 100 years ago was a good idea or not? Those were different times, I know little of what happened back then.

Was going to type the same thing myself. We don't base our lives on the standards of a century ago. Our society and values of 100 years ago weren't the same as today. I don't see many people looking wistfully back and saying I wish I could live like my ancestors. Yes, I'd take certain aspects of it but if I was transported back to 1917 I think I'd be wanting to get back to 2017 (and that's excluding the wars around those times).

My grandparents did loads of stuff I wouldn't do today and vice versa. It doesn't mean I think they were stupid or irresponsible.

 

[TheBigShort]

How could I say if what your grandparents did nearly 100 years ago was a good idea or not? Those were different times, I know little of what happened back then.

I would suggest you know very little about the life of a woman with 5 kids, no home of her own, with child that requires full-time care either.
Doesn't stop you commenting on her though does it?

 

[cremeegg]

I would suggest you know very little about the life of a woman with 5 kids, no home of her own, with child that requires full-time care either.
Doesn't stop you commenting on her though does it?

He may not, but we do know that taxpayers are being asked to pay for her housing and child care.

 

[TheBigShort]

We don't base our lives on the standards of a century ago.

You don't think so, no?

Yes, I'd take certain aspects of it but if I was transported back to 1917 I think I'd be wanting to get back to 2017

What do you base that on?

My grandparents did loads of stuff I wouldn't do today and vice versa. It doesn't mean I think they were stupid or irresponsible.

Of course, it was your grandparents. Just like mine. In fact, does anyone look on their grandparents as being irresponsible?
Do you think in 2117, the grandchildren of this woman wont be thinking the same?

 

[The Horseman]

I would suggest you know very little about the life of a woman with 5 kids, no home of her own, with child that requires full-time care either.
Doesn't stop you commenting on her though does it?

The Big Short a question please if I may. Do you think the person with the five children should take any responsibility for the position she finds herself in. I am referring to the fact that she has five children some of which were conceived when she was homeless.

 

[TheBigShort]

Do you think the person with the five children should take any responsibility for the position she finds herself in.

Absolutely, no question. Do you not?

 

[The Horseman]

Absolutely, no question. Do you not?

I do I am just interested in your views as to what responsibility she should take.

 

[TheBigShort]

I do I am just interested in your views as to what responsibility she should take.

She should look after her children as best she can, you know, feeding, clothing, roof over head...the usual stuff.
What do you think?

 

[The Horseman]

She should look after her children as best she can, you know, feeding, clothing, roof over head...the usual stuff.
W

Interesting that you respond with "She" and " a roof over head", which I find a bit ironic as "She" is not looking after her children "We" are. She had an additional child conceived while she was homeless!

To me it appears "She" in your eyes and "We" appear to be the same thing. Do you not agree that she was irresponsible to have another child while homeless?

 

[TheBigShort]

Interesting that you respond with "She" and " a roof over head", which I find a bit ironic as "She" is not looking after her children "We" are. She had an additional child conceived while she was homeless!

She is looking after her children, did you not listen to the interview?
"We", are not looking after her children. Get of your high horse (no pun intended), but your personal tax contribution to society is so inadequate, barely relevant, to anything in that woman's life. This notion that 'your' taxes pay for 'everything', for everybody is delusional.
Tell us, how much tax do you pay? And then tell us do you have children? Do you use public roads, were you educated in the public school system? Ever use a public hospital? Ever use a public park? Public beaches? Ever visit a public museum? Use public transport? Use public sewerage system? Use public water system? Ever vote? Ever called the emergency services for anything?...etc...etc

Your personal tax contributions are so miniscule, so tiny, that you would have to work twenty lifetimes before they would even register as any sort of meaningful contribution considering all the things that you use and avail of from the rest of the taxpayers. And that applies to use all.
You live in one of the wealthiest countries in the world, one of the most developed countries in the world by global standards, one of the safest and politically stable countries in the world.
When we start to take responsibility for all our actions, instead over consuming, polluting, feeding the illegal drug trade buying lines of coke that leave teenage apprentice plumbers dead. Stop abusing alcohol, stop wasting vast quantities of food, etc...then we can lecture others.
Having a child is not irresponsible, leaving a child in crowded conditions, suffering from cerebral palsy is.

 

[ant dee]

If only taxation was voluntary and you could only pay for the things you wanted...

 

[PGF2016]

She is looking after her children, did you not listen to the interview?
"We", are not looking after her children. Get of your high horse (no pun intended), but your personal tax contribution to society is so inadequate, barely relevant, to anything in that woman's life. This notion that 'your' taxes pay for 'everything', for everybody is delusional.
Tell us, how much tax do you pay? And then tell us do you have children? Do you use public roads, were you educated in the public school system? Ever use a public hospital? Ever use a public park? Public beaches? Ever visit a public museum? Use public transport? Use public sewerage system? Use public water system? Ever vote? Ever called the emergency services for anything?...etc...etc

Your personal tax contributions are so miniscule, so tiny, that you would have to work twenty lifetimes before they would even register as any sort of meaningful contribution considering all the things that you use and avail of from the rest of the taxpayers. And that applies to use all.
You live in one of the wealthiest countries in the world, one of the most developed countries in the world by global standards, one of the safest and politically stable countries in the world.
When we start to take responsibility for all our actions, instead over consuming, polluting, feeding the illegal drug trade buying lines of coke that leave teenage apprentice plumbers dead. Stop abusing alcohol, stop wasting vast quantities of food, etc...then we can lecture others.
Having a child is not irresponsible, leaving a child in crowded conditions, suffering from cerebral palsy is.

Do you think her behaviour is acceptable? And by her behaviour I mean having a 5th child while homeless.

Also, while my taxes may only pay for her needs in part that doesn't mean I can't be pissed off at what she is doing.

 

[The Horseman]

She is looking after her children, did you not listen to the interview?
"We", are not looking after her children. Get of your high horse (no pun intended), but your personal tax contribution to society is so inadequate, barely relevant, to anything in that woman's life. This notion that 'your' taxes pay for 'everything', for everybody is delusional.
Tell us, how much tax do you pay? And then tell us do you have children? Do you use public roads, were you educated in the public school system? Ever use a public hospital? Ever use a public park? Public beaches? Ever visit a public museum? Use public transport? Use public sewerage system? Use public water system? Ever vote? Ever called the emergency services for anything?...etc...etc

Your personal tax contributions are so miniscule, so tiny, that you would have to work twenty lifetimes before they would even register as any sort of meaningful contribution considering all the things that you use and avail of from the rest of the taxpayers. And that applies to use all.
You live in one of the wealthiest countries in the world, one of the most developed countries in the world by global standards, one of the safest and politically stable countries in the world.
When we start to take responsibility for all our actions, instead over consuming, polluting, feeding the illegal drug trade buying lines of coke that leave teenage apprentice plumbers dead. Stop abusing alcohol, stop wasting vast quantities of food, etc...then we can lecture others.
Having a child is not irresponsible, leaving a child in crowded conditions, suffering from cerebral palsy is.

I am not going to answer personal questions, and yes I do use public roads I also pay road tax for the privilege, yes I was educated in a public school which my family contributed to using their taxes and I continue to contribute to using my taxes. Yes I use public water systems which the stamp duty and council levies on the cost of my residence was included therein, yes I have called the emergency services.

You mention the overconsumption, pollution, illegal drugs trade, these are all choices people are making, no one forces these on people they choose to make these decisions.

At what point do you think people should be accountable for their decisions/life choices?

 

[TheBigShort]

Do you think her behaviour is acceptable? And by her behaviour I mean having a 5th child while homeless.

I think our collective behavior, that means seriously disabled children are left in crowded conditions are deplorable.
Her behavior, you mean having sex, that is of course acceptable. Giving birth, perfectly acceptable.
Do I wish her children were brought into a more stable environment, absolutely.
But the situation is, as it is. I assume you find her 'behavior' unacceptable?
What do you propose to do about it now, and what do you propose should be done for future instances of this 'behavior'?

Also, while my taxes may only pay for her needs in part that doesn't mean I can't be pissed off at what she is doing.

You can be peeved off all you want, but your taxes are so insignificant in paying for her needs.
In fact, as I understand it, she doesn't have a house of her own, so not only are your taxes insignificant, they are not actually paying for her needs.
On the other hand, she looks after her disabled child. How much would it cost the tax payer for full-time medical care? This would be required if she wasn't being responsible and didn't look after her child.
My guess is she is saving the State, and you, a small fortune. So show some gratitude.

 

[TheBigShort]

You mention the overconsumption, pollution, illegal drugs trade, these are all choices people are making, no one forces these on people they choose to make these decisions.

I'm talking about the consequences of this behavior. Dead kids are the consequence. Obesity and diabetes are health costs.
Pollution and climate change are consequences.
Why should my taxes have to pay to for the disastrous consequences of people who choose to pollute the environment and abuse their own health?