home heating options.... please save me !

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kemosabe

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Hi everyone,
Long time reader first time poster.

Can anyone help me?

I am at the very early stages of a self build on a 2,500 square foot house and am at the end of my sanity in trying to decide on the best method to heat my house. I know there is no easy answer and every system has its pros and cons but any help would be greatly appreciated.

I have decided to go with a high spec insulation & solar panels for heating the water but I cant decide on the heating. Geo thermal, gas are not options & I have decided against wood pellet boilers.

Basically what I am considering is an air to water heat pump with underfloor heating & aluminium rads upstairs Vs wood log burner with back boiler to heat rads wit a condensing oil burner as back up . any suggestions ?

Ideally I would like to minimise the use of oil if possible but I have heard conflicting stories of the air to water heat pumps. Some say it is an excellent alternative to oil whilst others say the electricity bills are massive.

Sorry for rambling on so long.

Any advise is much appreciated.

Thanks
 
build to the highest insulation standard you can afford - any means of heat will be more expensive the lower the level you build and insulate to so this should always be your first priority.

As for heating, imo i would look at some type of stove with back boiler and then a gas condesnsing boiler as a backup. Geothermal is reliant on electricty, so you heating bill will always be set by electricity costs.

Keep it simple and as self sufficient as possible
 
thanks for input, much appreciated. Dinjo geo thermal is not really an option for me due to the space required to lay the pipes. i know there is a way of drilling down to achieve the same thing but how expensive is this ?

Thanks dj01 but can I use a gas condensing boiler when i am not on the gas mains ? is there much of a difference between the gas condensing boiler & the oil one ?

Do you mind me asking you Davyjones why you would go this way ? in additon do you know much about wood log burners ? for example would a huge amount of fuel & time be required to get enough heat to heat the radiators?
 
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Depends on how system is designed and how many rads are on it.

I would go for one because they are cheap to install and cheap to run. You will be surprised by the amout of free fuel you come across when you are looking.
 
KEMOSABE I got geothermal and the house is a standard type of detached small enough drive (about 3 cars long) to drill the hole and put in the pipes and pump was €8.000 the system is great I live in an area where the bedrock is granite so I don't know wheather that made the drilling more expensive or not
 
Once again lads thanks for the input,
Can I ask you DJ would their be any benefit in terms of cost & heating output in opting for a wood burner over a solid fuel burner or are they pretty much the same thing ? also and I will try to make this my last question for you on the matter, I am hoping to heat about 6-10 rads from this system. Would the heat needed for this make the room with the stove in it unbearably hot ?
Dinjo that sounds like a bargain & when I hear positive stories like that it really tempts me to go down the geo route but something in me is not fully convinced yet. Maybe Im being too careful but I worry about depending on electricity for all my heating costs & there is not enough long term data in this country on these systems in terms of product durability, service & costs. Having said that Im still not sure. . . Im confused.
 
kemosabe said:
Can I ask you DJ would their be any benefit in terms of cost & heating output in opting for a wood burner over a solid fuel burner or are they pretty much the same thing ? also and I will try to make this my last question for you on the matter, I am hoping to heat about 6-10 rads from this system. Would the heat needed for this make the room with the stove in it unbearably hot ?
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Click to expand...

They are the same thing. You want to be able to burn what you like in them.
Depends on the size of the room the stove is in, it will get quite cosy.

6-10 rads is a nice size for a stove to manage. Again, system design is important.
 
When we built our house we installed a wood pellet boiler along with solar tubes on the roof. I was initially cautious of the pellet boiler but my husband talked me around and now I must admit I am an avid fan!!! I find the system excellent and the cost very managable and we are also doing our bit for the environment and increasing our house's energy rating.

Since then I have converted my mother and two friends to the wood pellet boiler and they are both extremely with the systems also.

Good luck with your choices.....
 
Cheers RebelGirl,
Do you mind me asking what boiler you are using & if you have a large specialised storing unit for the pellets ?
Am meeting with an Energy Assessor who has agreed to go through the various heating systems & how they would fit with our build. Was getting lost in all the info.
 
Like rebelgirl we also used a pellet boiler, a windhager and are storing the pellets in an overhead self build storage tank with gravity feed. We are delighted with the system.

Not at all happy with the flat plate solar panels we installed at the same time. They will never pay for themselves, well at least ours won't anyway.
all the best, optimistic

kemosabe said:
Cheers RebelGirl,
Do you mind me asking what boiler you are using & if you have a large specialised storing unit for the pellets ?
Am meeting with an Energy Assessor who has agreed to go through the various heating systems & how they would fit with our build. Was getting lost in all the info.
Click to expand...
 
Hi Kemosable

The wood pellet boiler that we are using is called a Kedco boiler and we have bulk storage in the form of a silo, to which the pellets are delivered to in the form of three tonne per delivery.

The company is based in Cork and Dublin, www.kedco.com, but they service the whole country. I found them very easy to use, exceptionally helpful and offer a great back up service, well worth a visit!

We got both our solar and boiler from them and touch wood, pardon the poun, we have had no major problems or set backs with them and the products are of very good quality. I am now considering installing one of their pellet stoves also. They also can also service your boiler on an annual basis also, very helpful I found - like a one stop shop!

Defo visit their website, great info on products/services and their staff are very knowledgable and helpful.

Good luck with your search and if you need anymore info just shout....
 
Self built a house, we installed a dimplex air to heat pump. It's hard to recommend due to the extortionate cost of electrictiy in this country but over two years it has still worked out cheaper than oil. Spend a lot on insulation, we insulated with top of the range hemp insulation and then used 50mm insulation in our plasterboard, contradiction? who cares it keeps the heat in. By far the best and simplest method was the windows on the 'sun in the day' facing aspect of the build, we have three massive windows and in the evening if there has been sun, the heat built up in the room is fantastic. Consider your windows in the room you will use most?? Mad, i don't know but if you have to change them it'll be worth the €34 and 8 weeks for a planning application early in the build??
 
shoestring, Would you mind responding to a couple of queries re your heat pump ? I met with a builder who I know is very reputable & has expertise in home heating & he strongly recommends the air to water heat pump.

Do you mind me asking; how big is your house in sq foot ? Do you have underfloor heating upstairs & downstairs ? What is the breakdown of your heating costs for the two years ? How have you found the system to use ? Does it take long for the house to warm up when you switch it on ?
If you could go back knowing what you do know would you keep your present system or revert to oil etc

Any information you have would be greatly appreciated ?
 
kemosabe said:
............... I met with a builder who I know is very reputable & has expertise in home heating & he strongly recommends the air to water heat pump...................
Click to expand...

Be aware that the efficiency ( COP figure ) of air to water and air to air heat pumps decreases as the external temperature decreases.

Due to this you might want to either over spec the size of the heat pump or allow for a second form of heating which could be used to top up the heat from your heat pump in very cold weather.

Will you be putting in a controlled ventilation system with heat recovery ? If so, have you considered using the duct system for heating. IIRC both Daiken and Mitsubishi offer MHRV units that integrate into their indoor duct heating units. ( This, of course, is only applicable to their air to air heat pumps.)

Olddog
 
Thanks for the heads up Oldog re the COP figure & I will def bear this in mind. I have not made my mind up yet re which heating system to go for. I had nearly decided on oil & rads with a wood stove boiler as back up but then a number of people strongly recommended the air to water pumps with underfloor heating ! I am just trying to get some real life data on the running costs of such a system which is proving very tricky ? We were considering a heat recovery system budget depending. Any suggestions re a suitable back up system to compliment the air to water system ?
 
Its an 8kw Dimplex WPM2004. I think they are also available in 12kw. Our house is around 2400m2. We use underfloor heating downstairs and radiators upstairs and at the moment we are only heating roughly half the house. Try and put the storage tanks in your house (not in a garage etc.) even though they are bulky for max heat retention. One thing I would love to get in the future however is solar panels to heat water as we have to leave the pump on to heat out water during the summer. We are living in the house 2.5 years now and on average our ESB bills have been €1800-1900 per annum. That is all our heating, all our hot water and all our electricity with ESB thinking of moving and saving 10%. Bear in mind we have a solid fuel stove, an open fire and a readyful supply of turf! Finally, if you haven't built yet spend as much as you can on insulation, you CANT insulate enough..Hope this is of help
 
Ta for the response shoestring. Could not agree more re the insulation & fully intend to insulate with every spare penny I have. Your bills seem very reasonable although there is no doubt your other heating systems are keeping them down. At this stage Im leaning towards condensing oil burner, rads & stove boiler as back up with solar tubes for hot water. Will future proof system to allow for wood pellet boiler to replace oil if necessary. Just dont think wood pellets are quite there yet but will be soon. Having said that Im meeting with some people who have heat pumps in their homes & wii certainly listen to what they have to say.
 
I don't really get the heat pump type heaters. If gas/oil is quarter the price of day time electricity and the heat pump turns one unit of electricity into 4 times as much heat, are you not as well off with Gas/Oil?
And that would be the heat pump operating at 100% whcih they may not do in the Irish climate.
I can see the environmental gains but not the cost savings?


SEI costs per type of fuel
[broken link removed]

Heat pumps
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump

If you have the option of natural gas, go for that as your back up at least. Its the cheapest and easiest overall.
Maybe a wood burner to heat the main living area and some water?


I'd second the insulation, better to go with a super insulated house and a well regulated normal heating system than a state of the art heating system for heating the back yard!!
 
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