Help Needed to Establish What Info Bank of Ireland Gave re Tracker Mortgages in 05

[Moneydog]

Hi

In 2005, I signed on to a tracker rate with Bank of Ireland.

In 2006, I fixed my interest rate for 3 years. I didn't know I would lose the tracker.

In 2009, I was told that I could no longer access the tracker. Because of the problems with the Irish banks at that time I decided to fix my interest rate again. I would not have done that if I had the security of a tracker. Fixing was more expensive than the tracker would have been.

Following an enquiry by the Central Bank, BOI has paid compensation to some tracker mortgage holders but not to me because they say I chose to fix for a second time.

As above, I only did so because the bank mis-stated my entitlement to a tracker. I am going to complain to the FSO. In doing so, I need to build the case that I had a right to the tracker. To do that, I need to get as much information as I can on the way in which Bank of Ireland marketted Tracker Mortgages to customers around 2005. In particular, I am looking for brochures, information provided, that sort of thing.

I also want to clarify if the tracker interest rate would have been different from the bank's own variable rate from time to time in 2005 or 2006. Would it have ben higher?

Was there a different loan approval process for tracker mortgages?

I need to check what information was given about the consequences of fixing interest rates in 2006 for people on tracker rates. I certainly didn't know.

Finally, I would be interested in knowing if anyone has been to the FSO, how their case went etc.

 

[Maggs065]

I also fixed for a second time and got my tracker back earlier this year (Ulster Bank). I think you need to review your original loan agreement and what it states on the rate etc.

 

[Bronte]

To do that, I need to get as much information as I can on the way in which Bank of Ireland marketed Tracker Mortgages to customers around 2005. In particular, I am looking for brochures, information provided, that sort of thing.


I need to check what information was given about the consequences of fixing interest rates in 2006 for people on tracker rates. I certainly didn't know.

c.

Instead of brochers, what is key for you is your original mortgage documentation, do you have a copy of that ? If not, your solicitor might, and the bank certainly has it.

Re the info in 2006, I don't think the banks actually informed customers of the consequences of fixing, if you were on a tracker. But I believe the Ombudsman is recently stating that they should have. I think the banks were relying on small print ' seek legal advice before signing' something along those lines. Of course nobody took independant legal advice before signing these forms. And that is the point. People didn't know they were signing away their trackers, or being blindly led into losing their trackers. But the banks should have been clear on this, and there were deliberately not so. But it's hard to prove that.

 

[Moneydog]

Maggs065, I now have the tracker back 2. I am claiming the difference between what I paid on the 2nd fixed rate and what I would have paid had I been on the tracker during that time - as I say I should have been.

I have reviewed the letters of offer and formulated my claim in contract. I want the additional material to demonstrate if possible that the fact the mortgage was at a tracker rate was important to me when I took out the mortgage.

That is important because the bank will argue that I chose the 2nd fixed rate and there will be an issue about causation of loss, I suspect.

This information will also be useful to me in formulating alternative claims for breach of statutory duty (the Consumer protection act and the Consumer Protection Code) which are admittedly subject to some possible issues re dates.

I might also make a claim in tort at common law.

So how about it folks, I need information on interest rates charged from time to time by contrast with the equivalent BOI standard variable rates charged at that time. I need brochures, marketing material.

 

[Moneydog]

Maggs65, if you were wrongly told you couldn't have access to a tracker and also fixed for that reason, then I think you should consider a claim on that ground as well.

 

[PadKiss]

Hi all have a lot of experience in this area with this lender private message me your contact details as I have said before banks read theses threads also Padraic

 

[millieforbes]

Instead of brochers, what is key for you is your original mortgage documentation, do you have a copy of that ? If not, your solicitor might, and the bank certainly has it.

Re the info in 2006, I don't think the banks actually informed customers of the consequences of fixing, if you were on a tracker. But I believe the Ombudsman is recently stating that they should have. I think the banks were relying on small print ' seek legal advice before signing' something along those lines. Of course nobody took independant legal advice before signing these forms. And that is the point. People didn't know they were signing away their trackers, or being blindly led into losing their trackers. But the banks should have been clear on this, and there were deliberately not so. But it's hard to prove that.

I don't think the banks really thought about the potential cost of trackers to them until after a couple of years had passed and the gap between cost of funds and cheap trackers became clear - that was the point when the sharp practices kicked in, so probably at the time of the second fix for the OP. I think the problem is that in many cases the early letters re fixed rates which varied the original mortgage contracts are vague because fixed and variable rates come in and out of fashion and banks wanted to leave themselves flexibility, but obviously now both customer and bank want a strong interpretation in opposing directions.

I think the most likely places to have this info might be the bank itself, or the central bank - they would have had to approve marketing materials. Would it be worth doing an FOI request to the central bank for the information you're looking for?

 

[Moneydog]

Hi, I'd say that the banks do read these forums. Much good may it do them in my case at least - this is a case that will be decided on the documents and those say what they say. Very interested if anyone wants to get in touch privately however regarding this my e-mail is [email protected].
If anyone has a decision from the FSO on this kind of point (I have the HC judgment in the PTSB case) I'd be glad to receive copies of same. While I might refer to a helpful decision in submissions to the FSO, I would not refer to any distinguishing details of e.g. the parties and I would not use such a decision for any other purpose or publish it.

 

[Moneydog]

The Central Bank might have approved marketing materials - whether they would have records of same I am not so sure. They would not be able to give me info on the interest rates. I guess the best way to check this would be to get old statements. Before I go to that trouble, can anyone comment generally on whether you generally paid a price for a tracker because a standard variable interest rate was lower at that time - but without that guarantee of sticking with the ECB rate? Do people recall? The relevant period is in or around 2004 to 2006.

 

[wbbs]

There was no extra cost for a tracker, in fact they were usually lower than standard variable rates and people were encouraged to take them. I worked as a mortgage adviser in a bank during those years (not the bank you are talking about). The only time I recall a tracker not being one of the the options for a customer was where the underwriting rules of a 5 yr fixed allowed them to borrow a higher figure, even then many of those fixed reverted to tracker after the term was up, they could still have opted for a lower loan, cheaper property and the tracker rate if they wanted. There were customers who did not want a tracker rate and wanted to go with a standard variable, sometimes anything other than what people were used to was suspect.

We actively encouraged existing standard variable rate customers to switch to trackers, lists and lists of customers to ring, send them out the form if they agreed, sign and return and you're on a tracker. You would be surprised how many people did not go for it assuming there had to be a catch. Equally when new fixed rates were launched we had to ring customers to offer them, again if they wanted them we sent out the form, these forms mentioned nothing about losing a tracker if you switched as this was not something that was even on the radar as important. It wasn't even an issue to point out to them that they might lose a tracker for two reasons, we weren't aware they would and we did not know how valuable that was to become. Often when people signed up to a fixed rate and rates decreased they would be back complaining about that too, anyone can only make the best decision based on the info at the time and there was period when rates were expected to rise and everyone rushed into fixed and the rates dropped and stayed low for several years. None of those customers would have fixed if they knew obviously but any decision like that is a gamble.

At no time while I was there was there a culture of trying to trick or get people off tracker rates, the staff in the branches certainly had no instruction to that effect or no knowledge back then that these would become so valuable. Maybe the big wigs in Head Office knew what was going to happen but if they did they didn't tell us.

When trackers stopped being issued in 2008 nothing changed (where I was anyway), new ones were not being issued and existing customers were not being offered a switch but there was no drive to get people off them.

I left in 2010 and had come across some cases whereby the fixed rate mortgages when it expired did not revert back to tracker as it should but had gone back to standard variable. This was a little odd as the product type would automatically make these revert so something caused this, unless we want to blame computer error! Any that I queried were immediately put back on tracker as per their loan offer and from reading here and elsewhere I can see a lot of people have noticed this and got their trackers back. However I equally think there are lots of people out there who fixed and do not even know they should have got their tracker back.