Have I been over charged by my accountant?

[Graham_07]

Great comeback, I'll remember that one Shouldn't you be filing someone's tax returns right now?

Ah well you see that's what happens when you run things correctly. It means I'm actually looking at late deal holidays right now . Santorini or Lanzarote, first week in August what do you think?

 

[jackswift]

Ah well you see that's what happens when you run things correctly. It means I'm actually looking at late deal holidays right now . Santorini or Lanzarote, first week in August what do you think?

Go for it all it will cost you is two CGT computations

 

[jackswift]

Graham ahora mejoramos la parada este absurdo o uno de nosotros será prohibido del AAM

 

[Graham_07]

Graham ahora mejoramos la parada este absurdo o uno de nosotros será prohibido del AAM

Muy bien mi amigo buenos tardes.

 

[NicolaM]

Graham ahora mejoramos la parada este absurdo o uno de nosotros será prohibido del AAM

Muy bien mi amigo buenos tardes.

El español no es una lengua secreta chicos!

 

[jackswift]

El español no es una lengua secreta chicos!

Non c'è nessun linguaggio del Nicola m. segreto io era controllo giusto per vedere se Graham fosse dopo la spazzolatura in su sul suo Spagnolo prima della sua festa.

 

[NicolaM]

Siete multi di talento Jackswift.
Molto sono impressionato con voi!
Nicola

 

[Graham_07]

Santorini or Lanzarote, first week in August what do you think?

Non c'è nessun linguaggio del Nicola m. segreto io era controllo giusto per vedere se Graham fosse dopo la spazzolatura in su sul suo Spagnolo prima della sua festa.

Greco e Spagnolo Jackswift !

 

[budapest]

there are good accountants and there are cheap accountants but there are no good cheap accountants

I don't think that this is necessarily true. I had a previous rather expensive accountant, who had 20-30 years experience, but made some potentially costly errors in the tax advice he gave me. I switched to somebody who cost half as much, had around 10 years experience, but was much more aware of recent changes in tax legislation, etc. She was extremely competent, but eager to expand her business, so charged very competitively.

 

[budapest]

there are good accountants and there are cheap accountants but there are no good cheap accountants

I don't think that this is always true. I had a previous rather expensive accountant, who had 20-30 years experience, but made some potentially costly errors in the tax advice he gave me. I switched to somebody who cost half as much, had around 10 years experience, but was much more aware of recent changes in tax legislation, etc. She was extremely competent, but eager to expand her business, so charged very competitively. She was also much easier to deal with as she didn't have the slightly arrogant/know-it-all attitude of the previous guy.

 

[ubiquitous]

"Half as much" of the rate charged by a particularly expensive provider does not necessarily equate to "cheap".

The original post in this thread was from someone who was charged €600 for self-assessment accounts & tax return and thought they were being overcharged. Twenty years ago I was training with a provincial firm who at the time were charging small sole traders £500/€600 plus VAT for a similar service. This was at a time when they were paying part-qualified trainee staff about £2-£3 per hour. In todays terms, the equivalent pro-rata fee would perhaps be €3,000+.

No matter how good value is offered, some people will always think they are getting poor value.

 

[Graham_07]

I don't think that this is always true. I had a previous rather expensive accountant, who had 20-30 years experience, but made some potentially costly errors in the tax advice he gave me. I switched to somebody who cost half as much, had around 10 years experience, but was much more aware of recent changes in tax legislation, etc. She was extremely competent, but eager to expand her business, so charged very competitively. She was also much easier to deal with as she didn't have the slightly arrogant/know-it-all attitude of the previous guy.

Fair enough and good on her. I suppose everyone may have a different perception of "cheap". There are those in every trade/ profession who charge high sums which might not necessarily be commensurate with their skill or the time & effort put in. It probably comes down to what both parties are happy with. Last year I got a specialist tax opnion for a client. It cost €1,750+VAT for 6 hours. The client saved in excess of €100K. Well worth it. I've seen people pay very high sums for work which I would not charge nearly as much for. The ultimate lesson I suppose is check before you buy.

 

[Iceman732]

With a €600 tax bill the OP is unlikely to have had higher rate liability

Sorry Graham I have to pull you up on that ridiculous comment.

Take this example:

Gross Emoluments of €500,000 and PAYE paid of €200,000 and also has a rental profit of €1,500.

1. Assume PAYE paid covers tax liability on Gross Emoluments. (I'm not going to work out the liability!)

2. Assume €1,500 charged to tax at marginal rate.

The tax bill on the rental income would amount to €615, ignoring PRSI and levies. The individual would fall subject to self-assessment as they have rental income, therefore the individual would have a tax liability of €615 + €615 PT.

So you're telling me someone with a €600 liability is unlikely to have 41% income?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tut tut Graham

 

[Graham_07]

I was on a very low income, working for myself.

With a €600 tax bill the OP is unlikely to have had higher rate liability.

Sorry Graham I have to pull you up on that ridiculous comment.
So you're telling me someone with a €600 liability is unlikely to have 41% income?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the example you gave which of course is largely correct in the context of that case as you presented. In fact, I'm sure we could come up with several computations where the additional liability to tax/prsi/levy could in fact exceed the additional income.

However in the context of the case of the OP to this specific thread ( which is, I think, what we were dealing with at the time and not your example) and the OP's specific comments on being self-employed with no mention of any other sources of income such as rents which of course could colour the result as might any of a number of other sources of income and on what they quoted as a very low income (Of course €500,000 might be low to some people), I do not consider my answer in the context of the OP to be ridiculous.

P.S. Do 24 !'s have more effect that 1 !

 

[ubiquitous]

... the OP's specific comments on being self-employed with no mention of any other sources of income such as rents which of course could colour the result as might any of a number of other sources of income and on what they quoted as a very low income ...

Of course if the OP had other self-assessment income such as rents in addition to their trading income, the €600 accountancy fee would start looking ridiculously cheap rather than the opposite.

 

[Graham_07]

Of course if the OP had other self-assessment income such as rents in addition to their trading income, the €600 accountancy fee would start looking ridiculously cheap rather than the opposite.

Absolutely correct. It looks most likely from the information provided that the OP is a small business with no other complications of other sources of income, getting their annual accounts and self-assessment tax return filed and paying a €600 for same. Of course only the OP can clarify this to be the case.

 

[Iceman732]

Graham naturally I was going for effect with the example I created above. My point was that the idea of someone with a tax bill of €600 does not necessarily mean that they don't have income at 41%.

I'll make the situation a little easier, let's take the above example of the OP, assume married under joint assessment. Spouse only as P60, so the accountants bill would be no different to just have self-employed income. Spouse on salary of €80,000. Couple liable to circa €32,000 at higher rate.

Just try and keep the hugely sarcastic comments to a minimum when you are in fact incorrect with you original comment.

Thanking you in advance.

P.S I've used no ! just for you Graham.

 

[Graham_07]

Just try and keep the hugely sarcastic comments to a minimum when you are in fact incorrect with you original comment.

hugely sarcastic

One can speculate and compute innumerable circumstances for the OP. However until such time as the OP states that their situation is anything other than as was assumed from their original post, I stand by all comments made. I see no reason not to. If their situation meets any of the examples you gave then of course there may be adjustments.

PS Thanks for leaving out the !'s. After the BBQ & bottles last night don't think could count to 4 not to mind 24.

 

[MAGPIEKB]

I don't think that this is always true. I had a previous rather expensive accountant, who had 20-30 years experience, but made some potentially costly errors in the tax advice he gave me. I switched to somebody who cost half as much, had around 10 years experience, but was much more aware of recent changes in tax legislation, etc. She was extremely competent, but eager to expand her business, so charged very competitively. She was also much easier to deal with as she didn't have the slightly arrogant/know-it-all attitude of the previous guy.

I think it might be worth noting that 600 euros is still a lot of money to many people, myself included. Im now using an accountant in wicklow, i have found them to charge less than in Dublin. Id be curious to hear more about your accountant budapest. How did you find her?