Have I been over charged by my accountant?

C

confusedspen

Guest
After doing my taxes for 2006-2007, I recently recieved an invoice from accountant for €600. That is about as much as much I paid in taxes (I was on a very low income, working for myself).
I am surprised by the price - does that seem like a lot?
 
It seems ok.
I got charged €1850 for my returns last year (shockingly expensive, I thought).
Would you consider doing your returns yourself? Apparently quite easy online for self assessment.
Nicola
 
What level of business would you have? The accountant would probably charge by the length of time spent on completing your accounts. I actually think that you got a good deal.
 
The majority of accountants do set out to charge on a time input basis, however most accountants simply end up raising the fee by 10%. Chargeable time means little or nothing these days.

As Joe1234 pointed out it does depend on the level of work involved and the neatness of your information. For example, if you have all your receipts organised i.e. all your telephone bills together and sorted, all your stationery expenses together etc,etc......

The minimum fee an accountant would charge is about €500, again this depends on a number of things. If for example you are going through a bad spell a decent accountant will go easy on the fee as he/she does want to keep you at a customer after all. It's better for the accountant to be getting €450 rather than nothing!

Were the actual accounts that were prepared or just an income and expenditure account? For instance did the accounts have a balance sheet etc....

Also, €600, is this including Prelim. for 2008? Did you have any tax liability at 41%?
 
confusedspen said:
After doing my taxes for 2006-2007, I recently recieved an invoice from accountant for €600. That is about as much as much I paid in taxes (I was on a very low income, working for myself).
I am surprised by the price - does that seem like a lot?
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I am paying double that. Last year I had to get my accountant to calculate capital gains tax. I got an auctioneer to do 2 valuations he also had a lot of checking up on purchases over a 20 year period. The auctioneer charged me €150 for all that he done. What the accountant did was take all the auctioneers information and do the simple calculation for capital gains tax. The accountant charged me €1000. When I questioned this price he started telling me about all the info he had to collect I told him that the auctioneer got all that info and I had the paperwork to prove it, he then started rambling on about that there is a minimum charge for doing CGT and it was €1000. I have done the sum of how to calculate CTG in a tax course that I done, when you have all the figures it takes about 5 minutes. €1000 for 5 minutes work thats not bad.
 
confusedspen said:
After doing my taxes for 2006-2007, I recently recieved an invoice from accountant for €600. That is about as much as much I paid in taxes (I was on a very low income, working for myself).
I am surprised by the price - does that seem like a lot?
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The accountant's fee and the tax bill are unrelated. If you had a tax bill of nil would you have expected the accountant's bill to be nil also ? The work done may be more than you realise. Did you not request a fee quote before getting the work done?



NicolaM said:
It seems ok.
I got charged €1850 for my returns last year (shockingly expensive, I thought)Nicola
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If it is too expensive would you consider moving to an accountant whose charges are more in line with your expectations. Again, as above did you not agree terms?


Iceman732 said:
Also, €600, is this including Prelim. for 2008? Did you have any tax liability at 41%?
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With a €600 tax bill the OP is unlikely to have had higher rate liability.


jackswift said:
I have done the sum of how to calculate CTG in a tax course that I done, when you have all the figures it takes about 5 minutes. €1000 for 5 minutes work thats not bad.
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With those sort of earnings perhaps you should consider pursuing a career in tax consultancy. Again, as in above, did you not ask what he was going to charge?

The largely common thread here is the surprise at the level of charge. In most instances the client has not asked what the charge was going to be. If I am buying a TV, I ask the price. If I am getting a plumber to repair my boiler, I ask the rough price ( I know there will be +/- in some jobs so fair enough). However many people seem to rarely ask professionals ( not just accountants) what they are going to be billed. If you do not then how can you then be shocked or amazed by the price. Different accountants will have different fee scales/charges. They will vary for a multitude of reasons. There are no set charges or set hourly rates. One needs to ask.

( I am an accountant & auditor in practice )
 
NicolaM said:
shockingly expensive, I thought.
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Graham_07 said:
If it is too expensive would you consider moving to an accountant whose charges are more in line with your expectations.
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I did, as a result of a big error in my previous return (thanks for advise you gave to me previously re this Graham, was very useful).
I don't mind paying for something when it is done correctly, and unfortunately this was not done correctly for me.
I have paid similar to my current accountant but to me it is not now 'shockingly expensive', as the work he has done is reliable, and I am very happy with his services, so even though the same price, it now is value for money (if that makes sense).
Nicola
 
Graham_07 said:
With those sort of earnings perhaps you should consider pursuing a career in tax consultancy. Again, as in above, did you not ask what he was going to charge?

The largely common thread here is the surprise at the level of charge. In most instances the client has not asked what the charge was going to be. If I am buying a TV, I ask the price. If I am getting a plumber to repair my boiler, I ask the rough price ( I know there will be +/- in some jobs so fair enough). However many people seem to rarely ask professionals ( not just accountants) what they are going to be billed. If you do not then how can you then be shocked or amazed by the price. Different accountants will have different fee scales/charges. They will vary for a multitude of reasons. There are no set charges or set hourly rates. One needs to ask.

( I am an accountant & auditor in practice )
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No I did not ask what he was going to charge as I thought that it would be included in the normal yearly fees, like it has been for the fifteen years he has been doing my accounts. Like I said I wouldn't expect him to have a seperate charge for doing a five minute sum. If you're buying a TV you ask the price then they tell you its extra for the plug, come on there is a big difference between the two. As for the comment about pursuing a career in tax consultancy I will ignore that. By the way what would normally charge for CTG when someone supplies all the details?
 
Graham_07 said:
With those sort of earnings perhaps you should consider pursuing a career in tax consultancy. Again, as in above, did you not ask what he was going to charge?

The largely common thread here is the surprise at the level of charge. In most instances the client has not asked what the charge was going to be. If I am buying a TV, I ask the price. If I am getting a plumber to repair my boiler, I ask the rough price ( I know there will be +/- in some jobs so fair enough). However many people seem to rarely ask professionals ( not just accountants) what they are going to be billed. If you do not then how can you then be shocked or amazed by the price. Different accountants will have different fee scales/charges. They will vary for a multitude of reasons. There are no set charges or set hourly rates. One needs to ask.

( I am an accountant & auditor in practice )
Click to expand...
No I did not ask what he was going to charge as I thought that it would be included in the normal yearly fees, like it has been for the fifteen years he has been doing my accounts. Like I said I wouldn't expect him to have a seperate charge for doing a five minute sum. If you're buying a TV you ask the price then they tell you its extra for the plug, come on there is a big difference between the two. As for the comment about pursuing a career in tax consultancy I will ignore that. By the way what would normally charge for CTG when someone supplies all the details?
 
jackswift said:
As for the comment about pursuing a career in tax consultancy I will ignore that. By the way what would normally charge for CTG when someone supplies all the details?
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1) It's CGT not CTG. ;) 'Nuff said.

2) I repeat what I said above. Different accountants will have different fee scales/charges. They will vary for a multitude of reasons. There are no set charges or set hourly rates. One needs to ask.

3) It is very foolish to expect something to be included unless it has been included every year. That being said I have , where the job was as you stated " 5 minutes" done CGT computations for no additional charge, especially in cases of long standing clients who are already paying for an income tax/accountancy service. I have also in other cases, separately charged, especially in cases where it was obvious that it was not going to be the "5 minute" job that the client might have expected. I would expect the client to value their time and expertise and would hope that they expect the same of me. This is where it is important to have clear lines of communication.
 
NicolaM said:
I have paid similar to my current accountant but to me it is not now 'shockingly expensive', as the work he has done is reliable, and I am very happy with his services, so even though the same price, it now is value for money (if that makes sense).
Nicola
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I understand your reasoning. To paraphrase the old adage about old bold soldiers - "there are good accountants and there are cheap accountants but there are no good cheap accountants "
 
€1,000 is not expensive for a CGT computation IF there is a significant gain and IF the person completing the computation and return is an expert on CGT. I have seen many cases where people have overpaid CGT through getting incorrect/incomplete advice, and I have seen some cases where people underpaid CGT by incorrectly claiming reliefs and ended up being screwed by the Revenue for interest and penalties later on. As always you get what you pay for.
 
Not always true Ubiq. There are rogues out there who charge outrageous prices for poor workmanship. Simply being an ACA, ACCA or CPA is not enough. A lot of older accountants fail to keep up to date and repeat the same mistakes over and over. A lot of younger accountants suffer from inexperience and are more worried about their trip to St. Andrews or their 7 series than in providing quality service.
 
simplyjoe said:
Not always true Ubiq. There are rogues out there who charge outrageous prices for poor workmanship. Simply being an ACA, ACCA or CPA is not enough. A lot of older accountants fail to keep up to date and repeat the same mistakes over and over. A lot of younger accountants suffer from inexperience and are more worried about their trip to St. Andrews or their 7 series than in providing quality service.
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Indeed, in any walk of life, expensive does not automatically mean good, but on the other hand, most reputable experts will command fees much higher than the cheapest alternatives. As always, recommendations from previous customers (satisfied & otherwise) are the best way for the customer to tell the difference.
 
jackswift said:
I know that it is CGT it was a typing error read my first post I am not a typing expert like you:rolleyes:
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jackswift said:
have done the sum of how to calculate CTG in a tax course that I done,
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Attention to detail, one of the things that makes €1,000 for "5 minutes work" worth it all. ;).

I always liked the story of the service engineer who was called to fix a machine in a factory. The production manager showed him the machine. The engineer looked at it, walked round it, then after pondering for a few minutes asked for a hammer. Puzzled the manager got one for him. The engineer selected a spot on the side of the machine and gave it a short sharp tap with the hammer. The machine started running perfectly. Later the manager got the engineers bill. It read :
"To machine repair €100.00."
The manager, thinking this excessive wrote to the engineer for a detailed breakdown of the charge. The engineer replied with the detail :
"One tap of hammer €10.00.
Knowing where to tap €90.00."
 
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