hard water problem in apartment solutions please

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cara mc k

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Dear AAM,

I live in a two bedroomed apt in North Dublin , the water is very hard, I am looking for advice to soften the water especially in the bathroom, I have been looking on websites and I am very confused with the advice, I don't have much space, any advice appreciated.

thanks
Cara Mc K
 
Brita water filter is what you need for the water coming from the kitchen sink. Pop into fridge if you want it more chilled as apartments won't have cold water from tap as in like a house feeding from mains as it has to be pumped up so it's a bit warmer than in a house.
I'm not sure about the bathroom at all but I'd be v wary of some filtration systems as "some" but not all are scams.

Also what part of North Dublin are you in? To be honest if you are up as far as Swords than the water is medium hard, ie average - not v hard and is about 180mg CaCo3. Water source North of Griffith Ave ext to Donabate is from Lexilip.

If you are in Balbriggan direction, yes the water is hard - about 340 mg CaCo3, the source is Bog Of The Ring.
See here [broken link removed]

If you've lived previously in Raheny direction, Drumchondra or southside you'll find the water on the Northside hard but it's average, just that the other sources which supplies these areas (Ballyboden, Ballymore Ustace & Roundwood) are v soft. Some area's are a blend of above.

Hope that answers your questions.
 
Thanks for reply, I live in Glasnevin. I have a britta filter jug for drinking water, but find the water in the bathroom really effects my hair and skin. I was away recently in a soft water are and could not believe the difference. So I am looking for a system for the bathroom but the whole apt would be great.

Thanks
Cara Mc K
 
I've never heard of a bath water supply in Dublin affecting hair and skin.
You may have unusually sensitive skin, or there could be a problem.

  • Have you bathed in other hard water areas before?
  • Has is affected your hair or skin before?
The water may need to be tested, but I'm unsure how this is done.
Perhaps you could approach your local authority.
 
I've heard about this before but in houses not apartments but in most if not all instances there is something else involved and it's generally not the water supply.

To get it tested, you need to ring the council (DCC) - water division in Marrowbone Lane.

See [broken link removed]

Issue is more than likely one of your two water tanks - the internal (combi tank) in apt and also as in most apt's or storage area or pumping source in basement if the water supply is kept. But as bathroom comes from internal tank (kitchen does not), and or internal plumbing, it may be that and will be an internal, ie you've no recourse.
If source of issue is from pumped mains/and or storage tank in basement, then mgt company involved.

Hope that helps.
I don't know of systems to do apt's but I am fully aware of a lot of scamsters out there declaring all sorts. So if you do go for one, please be careful. There are honest people but not all.
 
You could get a filter that will do all of the house, but its very pricey. My parents were looking into one a few years ago, but the salesman was a bit 'dodgy' so they didn't proceed.
 
There is a difference between water softeners and water purification/filtration systems. If the issue is hard water, it's wisest not to go down the road of filtration systems.

A water softener with the capacity to deal with all the water used in a house or apartment would cost a few hundred euros, and would be smaller than a fridge. I think plumbing it into an apartment might be tricky and it might possibly be somewhat ineffective.
 
I agree with Padraigb, also you could fit water softener to bathroom only, and use filterjug in kitchen. Best advice will always come from plumber suppliers, like heat merchants etc. And remember its water softeners you need not filtrarion systems.
 
Aldi and/or Lidl (I never remember which is which) often stock Brita-style water jugs and cartridges. Does anybody know if the cartridges are compatible with Brita jugs?
 
I purchased a water hardness testing kit in homebase a few years ago which consisted of dropping tablets into a water sample and when it turned purple the number of tablets used determined its hardness. B&Q may also stock these kits.
 
I'm in that area too and have the same problem although it doesn't affect my skin.......Let me know what apartments you are in?
 
builder ed said:
I purchased a water hardness testing kit in homebase a few years ago which consisted of dropping tablets into a water sample and when it turned purple the number of tablets used determined its hardness. B&Q may also stock these kits.
Click to expand...

I've not seen these kits but have heard about them from educational sources but is it precise and accurate? And are they Total Hardness or Mg or Ca hardness?

To get the accurate hardness of the water, she needs to contact the council which test and know the levels from source using standard accredited methods.
I've already stated the level from source (Leixlip providing OP is north of Griffith Ave - she did not say say yes or no to this) and it is approx 180mg/l CaCo3, ie it's range is about 170-200. This is not hard water but is medium.

If there is a specific problem in the apt, ie not from the mains, it is internal plumbing.

For the record, I work in this field.

As an aside, poster didn't say how long it is affecting her skin, ie having ezcema and if she's recently moved to the area or been there for some years. Some people are more sensitive than others but if it's suddenly an occurance when never happened before and yrs in general location other outside factors, eg stress, worry and allergic reaction to eg change in washing power. shampoos etc, showergels and even foods, and also deficiencies in vitamins and Iron levels can be a major part and has been found in a lot of instances to be the case rather than the source of water.

Not saying that it is the same here but just is something for OP to consider and to try and narrow down the exact cause of ezcema and hair problems.

Dyed and bleached hair can react differently to different water sources.
 
For a reasonable level of water hardness testing, most tablet or drop kits are fine for getting to the nearest 10 ppm or 20 ppm.

Laboratories should be accurate but unless they are INAB approved or have rigorous quality procedures - I have known some labs (now since liquidated) that have quoted hardness figures on their reports with two decimal place accuracy, yet have given results that were over 200 ppm away from the actual hardness level.

If labs use quick dip conductivity probes on cheap instruments that are not regularly cleaned or calibrated, along with guesswork in equating conductivity to hardness in ppm, then they can have the affect of being massively out in their reportings. A BQ test kit would be far more accurate in comparison.

Also, even the best state of the art laboratories who are INAB registered may have a listing of parameters they test for, where some parameters are INAB approved and some are not. And all parameters they quote figures for may only have a 3% to 5% tolerance range for result accuracy, so labs offering one or two decimal places on hardness figures are essentially misleading.

Council labs are about the best in the country to get value for money, accurate testing. Many ground water contaminant parameters may also have a naturally changeable parametric value from season to season, year to year, (odour, colour, turbidity, iron, manganese, sulphide, bacteria, etc) so the report figures listed may just be a snap shot of water quality at the time of tesing. Hardness figures do tend to be fairly consistent however.

To say water with 170 ppm to 200 ppm is not hard water but medium, is not really exact ! The EPA says water is approximately classed as hard at around 200 ppm and at this level it is doing a good bit of long term damage to household pipework and water heaters for sure.

In the US they take further precautions and view water as containing levels of hardness starting from around 20 ppm to 60 ppm which can start to cause damage in some high flow water heating applications, usually commercial. Our EPA in Ireland class water as being soft from 0 ppm to 50 ppm, and above this water contains varying additions of hardness from slight to moderate increases up to 200 ppm when it becomes officially hard, and I would say this is a fair enough picture for water used in residential applications.

But to really get technical, 100 ppm, 200 ppm and 300 ppm water (total) hardness can still be guess work as to true hardness water scaling potential without testing for pH, alkalinity and water temperature to get a langelier saturation index reading.

LSI or Langelier is a way of seeing whether water in some cases containing 150 ppm CaCO3 hardness actually scales pipework heavier than water with 250 ppm in some applications, taking into account total water flow metering overall.

With a high LSI figure and a long term leak in a household you could end up with far higher scaling at 100 ppm than with a low LSI figure with no leaks present at 300 ppm total hardness. Not often the case, but don't look at water hardness too simplistically !!

At the end of the day, if you have got scale, you have got scale, simple enough.
 
cara mc k said:
Dear AAM,

I live in a two bedroomed apt in North Dublin , the water is very hard, I am looking for advice to soften the water especially in the bathroom, I have been looking on websites and I am very confused with the advice, I don't have much space, any advice appreciated.

thanks
Cara Mc K
Click to expand...

Hard water is caused by a combination of calcium and magnesium in water. People and plants benefit from drinking hard water, but it does inhibit sudsing and cleaning. Bathing, laundry, and housecleaning are compromised. Softening water requires removing the minerals by using a water conditioner. Units are typically expensive, and apartment owners often disallow the right to install such equipment. For bathing, try adding a bath salt (Epsom Salt, sodium sesquicarbonate, etc). For cleaning, use white vinegar solution or scrub with a lemon sprinkled with baking soda. Good news: women concerned with osteoporosis can benefit from drinking hard water.
 
Anecdotal mentions of hard water providing health benefits are always questionable when a lack of a peer reviewed study or trials, population studies etc, fail to materialise, or how any newly supposed findings of other benefits are concluded, and from what sources?

Any global scientific studies, and none have been forthcoming to date, would have to list a control group, background health of the group, diet, the level of water hardness, (has it got little or no minerals in it like Volvic water at 10 ppm calcium or is it rock hard like Ballygowan with 100's of ppm calcium), and what if any effects are seen over a period of time, then repeating the study to give duplicatable results.

We know hard water causes havoc with pipes and plumbing, heating elements, showers, washing machines, dish washers, kettles, etc, right back to the steam age of boilers getting scaled up on steam trains, shortly after which ion exchange water softeners were invented.

The Battelle Memorial Institute Study on water hardness has been a successful multi million dollar year long study of the effects of hardness targeting to the nearest 1% values how much limescale builds up on pipework for a given level of water hardness, and the percentage heat losses using gas boilers, electric heating elements etc.

Water softeners have become such a fractional cost of what they used to be, often for apartments as low as three or four hundred euros, and have become so more efficient with volumetric metering controls, that their pay back, not only falls within one or two years in some cases, but are now heralded as one of the most greenest devices on the planet for carbon footprint reductions, and certainly they now have the greenest domestic credentials in the household, with the energy savings provided.

Over 90% of owner apartments are allowed to install water softeners, I have not heard of many who are not ?
 
Lidl filters

europhile said:
Aldi and/or Lidl (I never remember which is which) often stock Brita-style water jugs and cartridges. Does anybody know if the cartridges are compatible with Brita jugs?
Click to expand...

Yes, they are. That is: they fit the jugs. However, if you shop around on the net you will find original Brita filters for about the same price as the Aldi ones. I found that the filters from Aldi do about half the job as the Brita ones. No, I am not an employee there. I tried the Aldi filter. When the display on the water jug says 50% you can already see stuff floating on the water. The Brita filter keeps on removing that until they tell you to replace it after a month (to prevent bacterial growth, I understand).
 
Beware of cheap [broken link removed] claiming to reduce/remove limescale. They have no scientific validity. See here.
 
Hard water in North Dublin area

Water hardness is measured in units of ppm (parts per million).

Soft water does not exceed 50ppm.

In the northern parts of Dublin (Finglas, Santry), water hardness is above 200ppm.

Water hardness is the amount of minerals in the water (calcium, magnesium).

Hard water is not dangerous to health, but causes the build up of lime scale.
However, a very hard water is harmful to skin and hair.

Typical softening systems remove minerals from water.

The water is soft, but drinking causes leaching of minerals from the body.

Is there a water softener system that removes lime scale from pipes and heating while leaving minerals in the water?

The answer is yes.
 
Just for info purposes, I recently moved to an area which showed up bad levels of limescale in my kettle.

I began using bottled water for drinking, and bought a Brita filter jug for the fridge.

We bought a new cheapie kettle so that we'd have no scum on the top of the tea/coffee, and began using only water from the Brita jug to fill it with water. About 6 weeks later, the new kettles element is also covered in limescale, so its obvious that the Brita does not fully remove what it needs to. But to the eye, the water does look very drinkable out of it.
 
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