going on sick leave prior to possible retirement

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the13thwarrior

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i am due to go on sick leave in a month, i expect i could be out for some months; or even a year. It will depend on how many operations I need. i may have to consider if i am offered ill health retirement. (i had been offered before but declined).
Is the last year of sick leave counted towards pension calculations? I may not receive critical illness and therefore may see a reduction in my pay
I am 58 with 23 years of service in the HSE. the last three years i have been promoted to a higher grade.
I'm not terribly keen to retire, however, my health may not allow me to continue working
 
the13thwarrior said:
Is the last year of sick leave counted towards pension calculations? I may not receive critical illness and therefore may see a reduction in my pay
I am 58 with 23 years of service in the HSE.
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Hi. Sorry to hear about your health.

As I understand it, if you are offered, or granted, ill-health retirement you should get notional service as follows:

"6 years and 243 days (i.e. two-thirds of a year), subject to such credited service not exceeding the additional service which would have accrued if the officer had remained in service up to minimum retirement age;"

I take it your minimum retirement age is 60, given that you must be a pre-2004 entrant. That would suggest retirement with pension benefits calculated on the basis of 25 years service. You should also be eligible for Social Welfare ill-health payments, eg, Illness Benefit.

PS. Your sick leave is counted for pension purposes. If you have been 3 years in your promoted position at the time of retirement then your pension benefits should be calculated in the basis of your final salary for this position. If it has been fewer that 3 years then it will probably be calculated on the average of the final 3 years.
 
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Early Riser said:
Hi. Sorry to hear about your health.

As I understand it, if you are offered, or granted, ill-health retirement you should get notional service as follows:

"6 years and 243 days (i.e. two-thirds of a year), subject to such credited service not exceeding the additional service which would have accrued if the officer had remained in service up to minimum retirement age;"

I take it your minimum retirement age is 60, given that you must be a pre-2004 entrant. That would suggest retirement with pension benefits calculated on the basis of 25 years service. You should also be eligible for Social Welfare ill-health payments, eg, Illness Benefit.

PS. Your sick leave is counted for pension purposes. If you have been 3 years in your promoted position at the time of retirement then your pension benefits should be calculated in the basis of your final salary for this position. If it has been fewer that 3 years then it will probably be calculated on the average of the final 3 years.
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If she/he goes off pay, is that counted as service?
 
becky said:
If she/he goes off pay, is that counted as service?
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I believe not.

Standard (certified) sick leave is up to 91 days on full pay and 91 on half pay - so 6 months (in a 4 year period). This can be extended under the Critical Illness Protocol (requiring Occupational Health approval) to 6 months on full pay and 6 months on half pay. This is all pensionable service. Unpaid sick leave is not pensionable.

Some people may be granted Temporary Rehabilitation Remuneration ("Pension Rate Pay") after Critical Illness leave has ended - for up to 12 months. This is not pensionable. I would guess this is fairly rare.

My understanding anyway.
 
Some excellent points on this thread. I would add the following:-
1. "6 years and 243 days (i.e. two-thirds of a year), subject to such credited service not exceeding the additional service which would have accrued if the officer had remained in service up to minimum retirement age;" Depending on some circumstances I would add "Up to 6 years . . . "
2. Any sick leave on Nil Rate of Pay (or any other form of Nil Rate of Pay) is not accountable towards service.
3. Sick Leave at Half Pay is accountable just like you were on Full Pay.
 
Can I ask is the notional 6 years and 243 days an all or nothing scenario. I assume it would have to be a long term chronic illness for grounds like that. If you have cancer get surgery and chemo and are cured then you could not apply ? Also Is it the judgement of the occupational health doctor that applies to the decision on granting ?
 
This poster has more than 20 years of pensionable service. The notional service proviso differs with length of service:

"officers with between 10 and 20 years actual reckonable service are credited with the more favourable of

(i) an amount of service equal to the difference between actual reckonable service and 20 years, subject to such credited service not exceeding the additional reckonable service which would have accrued if the officer had remained in service up to age 65; or

(ii) 6 years and 243 days (i.e. two-thirds of a year), subject to such credited service not exceeding the additional service which would have accrued if the officer had remained in service up to minimum retirement age;

(c) officers with more than 20 years actual reckonable service are credited with the same award of added service as at (b)(ii) above"
 
Mamamia22 said:
Can I ask is the notional 6 years and 243 days an all or nothing scenario. I assume it would have to be a long term chronic illness for grounds like that. If you have cancer get surgery and chemo and are cured then you could not apply ? Also Is it the judgement of the occupational health doctor that applies to the decision on granting ?
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The criteria are set out in this circular. The relevant Occupational Health in whichever organization/department would have to approve or recommend.


More info here: https://cmo.gov.ie/ill-health-retir...ent on the grounds of,with the loss of income.
 
Early Riser said:
I believe not.

Standard (certified) sick leave is up to 91 days on full pay and 91 on half pay - so 6 months (in a 4 year period). This can be extended under the Critical Illness Protocol (requiring Occupational Health approval) to 6 months on full pay and 6 months on half pay. This is all pensionable service. Unpaid sick leave is not pensionable.

Some people may be granted Temporary Rehabilitation Remuneration ("Pension Rate Pay") after Critical Illness leave has ended - for up to 12 months. This is not pensionable. I would guess this is fairly rare.

My understanding anyway.
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Thank you. I only asked as the OP has some sick leave already so may fall into an unpaid sisuation.
 
thank you for your replies. I have had had no sick leave for 3 years, and before that had six weeks for the 3rd operation.
i was just thinking if i got half pay sick leave for some months that my pension calculations might be impacted, but in the scheme of things i'm sure it is not important. if the op does not go too well, and i can't return for another few months, i was worried.
i was not aware of the after 20 years service bit and that is interesting.
I supposed I am now worried / thinking about the whole thing in a different light. five years i said no to being signed off / retired and managed well but there has been a decline. Now, i'm not sure its the way forward; it will depend on time, and time i need to "see" as it is my eyes that take the time to heal and then see. I was returned back to work with some restrictions but in reality once you are back you are back and it was a struggle!
my boss asked me i wanted to return to a lower paid position, as i'm working over 60-65 hours weekly and under a lot of stress on top of having visual deficits. My colleagues also work this amount of time; crazy...........
i'm struggling with making the right decision for me. I have always thought I would work till 65 or so
very helpful guys
 
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the13thwarrior said:
september 2020 Grade 8, HSE 80,000 a year
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I have no idea whether or not you will be offered extended sick leave under the Critical Illness Protocol. But, if not, I suspect there is a good chance that you would be granted ill-health retirement - as it has been offered before. As you are not going on sick leave until next month, it would seem that you will have served 3 full years in your promoted post by the time your standard paid sick leave expires (even allowing for the the previous 6 weeks sick leave). With notional years that would be mean 25 years of pensionable service calculated on your final salary.

the13thwarrior said:
i'm working over 60-65 hours weekly and under a lot of stress
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It sounds as if you are finding work very stressful - not good for the health at the best of times. I know there is a big hit to your pay but (depending on your general financial circumstances) I think it might be well worth considering the ill-health retirement package. My rough calculation suggests a retirement lump sum in the range of €75,000 and an annual pension in the region of €16,500. You should also be eligible for a Social Welfare payment (accompanied by PRSI credits towards your State Pension). In the very unlikely event that you do not qualify for a SW payment (and you don't enter other insurable employment) you should be eligible for a Supplementary Pension from your current employer (of about €8,500 pa).

Of course, apart from the money aspect, there are the other aspects of retirement to consider - social, emotional, engagement/occupation, etc. These all vary so much from individual to individual. Retirement can be as difficult for some as it is rewarding for others. Preparation is important. Is there any support through work, or otherwise, that you might access to tease these things through for yourself?
 
I am reflecting on the above. It is a big drop but it is something I need to be prepared for, in case the decision is taken away from me.
I am not married, live with one family member and we share the house/bought it together; but mortgage is paid; very limited savings. I must admit i'm under a lot of stress, and need to reflect as right now the thoughts of not working are appealing - from a mindset that is so used to thinking i could work till i'm 70! i've worked all my life etc.
but the information and advice here is welcome, objective and good.
 
Really sorry to hear about your ill health.

I am not an expert but I assume you have been contracted for the standard 35 - 38 hr week in the HSE. Can you stop doing 60-65 hr per week and drop back to your contracted hours. Just say “due to my ongoing sickness I will be unable to work more than 39 hr per week to allow my eyes as much rest time as possible.”

And is there any assistive technology that will help with your eyes, larger print, screens, text to voice software etc etc., I have no idea what is available but if reasonable your employer should make accommodations for your eyes.

And thirdly, is it in your best interest to drop back to a lower grade to reduce your stress. You will be on a lower wage, which will impact your ability to save, plan for retirement etc. Plus can the HSE say to an employee - you’re sick so we are going to cut your wages? Are they planning to demote you because of your ill health? That sounds like discrimination. Especially if they say it is because you can’t work 60-65 hr per week!!
 
thanks for the above. The obvious thing is to stop working the amount of hours I do, which will, of course, mean that I can't get a lot of the work done; I must stress it is not because of my eyes, its the nature of the service. and things will improve over time with the service but it is in my control to stop working the long hours. I have a large screen, most of the modifications are done by myself and I'm good at knowing what works for me.
no, the HSE have no plans to demote me, it was my thoughts to do so to see if that would help. overall, I'm not sure it would. I have not had any performance reviews or performance management plans.
some of my colleagues have stopped working so many hours, some have left, some have gone part time. None of these options are really an option for me, although i am trying to apply for something else.
I've crunched the numbers, and reflected this week
if i got offered ill health retirement, it would make sense to take it, and look at my quality of life with my ill health. it would depend on the years they may offer. they may not offer anything at all, in which case, it is up to me to manage my stress and working hours and quietly and quickly get a different job, at the same grade if i can. I have worked this grade on a temporary basis two years prior to this permanent position, in a different positions, and everyone around me, like me, worked hard, but went home on time for the most part. don't mind working a few extra hours now and then but I guess i choose the wrong permanent job, and then my eyes started to fail me
100% when i posted this a few days ago i was looking for information, and the notional service post was very helpful! and your posts on quality of life etc. has prepared and made me plan a little.
when you are that stressed, all you can see is the trees.
 
the13thwarrior said:
when you are that stressed, all you can see is the trees.
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Absolutely. And you have so much on your plate right now - eyesight, health/operations, work pressure and a pivotal decision regarding the retirement possibility. I suggest that you might consider checking out some psychological support options. It might help separating out the wood from those trees.
 
I thought i would give an update to all advice given. Medically its been a super success, all my worrying for nothing. Things are going much better, and I am happy to return to work, albeit to a very different job, and in a part time position. I had been on this panel for some time, and didn't think it would ever come through. Same money but I'm confident it will work out. I will be returning to work very shortly. I have decided not to retire, as I really don't feel it is for me, and I know this new job very well, having worked in this office before; It was good to take some time to see how I recovered, and my mental health has improved. thanks
 
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