Getting out of being a landlord or not

[Bronte]

I don't think that should affect overseas residents but it is worth asking our gurus like Mandelbrot ,McGibney or others if it does affect you -and whether you are entitled to SW benefits because of it. Out of my depth on that one.

Thanks for your fishing expedition. No worries. I wasn't asking the question for myself about SW benefits, just wondering about it in general. Like yourself I hope not to have to rely on a dimishing social welfare in old age. By the time I retire they're be nothing left for anyone.

 

[murphaph]

Thanks for your fishing expedition. No worries. I wasn't asking the question for myself about SW benefits, just wondering about it in general. Like yourself I hope not to have to rely on a dimishing social welfare in old age. By the time I retire they're be nothing left for anyone.

I wouldn't mind having the opportunity to pay the minimum PRSI contribution (€253 a year I think) on the off chance that there will be a half decent state pension if my contributions led to a full state pension. Unfortunately I'm not allowed as I'm socially insured in Germany now.

UK non-residents living and working in another EU state can voluntarily maintain their NI contributions to avail of the state pension (as can Germans and anyone who has ever contributed to the German system) and it makes sense to do so in many cases. In Ireland we are prevented from doing so as it contravenes "European rules" about being socially insured in more than one member state at the same time: I think they make half these rules up as they go along!

 

[Bronte]

I don't see the problem you have Murphapy, your previous Irish contributions combined with your German contributions will give you the full state pension eventually. That's the beauty of the the European union. You don't need to make Irish Prsi contributions.

If you don't have a full working life, I think one can buy contributions, say if you were laid off when 55 or whatever. At least that used to be the case.

In any case I certainly doubt if paying €253 a year would help, that makes no sense to me that a low amount such as that would equal a pension eventually. If it's something that you are worried about then you should contact the pensions office in Sligo for the rules, they must have a booklet on people who contribute in Ireland, another EU country and how to make voluntary contributions. Personally I think Irish state pensions are not going to be sustainable at current levels so one must make other provision.

 

[murphaph]

I don't see the problem you have Murphapy, your previous Irish contributions combined with your German contributions will give you the full state pension eventually. That's the beauty of the the European union. You don't need to make Irish Prsi contributions.

You don't get a single pension at the end. You get a pension from each and every member state on a pro rata basis which you apply for through the responsible agency in the country you live in or the last EU country you worked in. They have to then deal with your previous country's agencies to be able to determine the payments, but it's not a single "EU pension"-no such thing exists. The Irish state pension is simply extremely generous compared to the German one for someone who can get one by making the minimum contribution.

German pension is based on actual money put into it (capped) so the more you earn during your working life and therefore the more German PRSI you pay into the pot, the more you get in your pension when you retire but the return is considered poor compared to many private schemes.

The Irish system works on an "averaged contributions" basis, so low earners, high earners, doesn't matter: so long as you make your averag 48 contributions per working year (since starting insurable employment in Ireland!-someone starting to work at age 55 in Ireland can avail of a FULL state pension-this is impossible in Germany) we all get the same state pension (currently €230 pw).

The Irish state pension, being so generous compared to what you can put into it, is therefore extremely attractive. The German state pension is not very attractive at all and even though Germans and people who have made at least one insurance payment in Germany can voluntarily continue to pay into it, there's very little reason to do so unless you have less than 5 years (their min. qualification period) of EU wide national insurance payments made and are leaving the EU completely and are unlikely to return.

The UK state pension is also a good RoI if you can make the minimum NI contribution to avail of it, so many Brits continue to pay voluntary NI payments in order to get it, especially if they leave the UK in their 30's or 40's.

In any case I certainly doubt if paying €253 a year would help, that makes no sense to me that a low amount such as that would equal a pension eventually.

It does in the UK system anyway.

If it's something that you are worried about then you should contact the pensions office in Sligo for the rules, they must have a booklet on people who contribute in Ireland, another EU country and how to make voluntary contributions.

You can't do it in Ireland. They prohibit it.

Under EU legislation it not possible for a person to be subject to the social insurance systems of two or more member states at the same time. This means that you cannot pay Voluntary Contributions in Ireland at the same time as you are in insurable employment, self-employment, receiving credited contributions or paying Voluntary Contributions in another EU member state.
http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Topics/PRSI/Pages/volcons.aspx

Personally I think Irish state pensions are not going to be sustainable at current levels so one must make other provision.

I agree, but even a reduced pension (say €100 pw in today's money-that's a huge cut from the current level) would be a very good RoI if you could avail of it with a minimum PRSI contribution of €253 (class S, think it's €317 for class A) a year!

I'm not concerned about my retirement at the moment. Have enough bricks and mortar to top up my German and Irish (presuming they don't change the rules again and nullify my 600 something class A contributions) pensions and have a small DC private scheme from ca. 8 years of employment with a multinational where it was compulsory to contribute.

 

[Bronte]

Yes you are correct it's bits of pensions from everywhere, but my understanding was that whereever you ended up living in you'd have an amount equal to anyone else, or more, but you wouldn't be getting any less than the minimum. Not an expert in the area, which is why you should check with Sligo. Would be interesting to know about it if you find out.

You say the Irish state pension is great compared to the German one, I find it hard to believe that German pensioners are worse off than Irish pensioners in relation to living standards, not monetary amounts.

I worked in London a long time ago, are you suggesting that I can pay €253 a year and get a full UK pension? No way. That's about 10K lump sun right now over say 40 years, please sign me up.

 

[murphaph]

Yes you are correct it's bits of pensions from everywhere, but my understanding was that whereever you ended up living in you'd have an amount equal to anyone else, or more, but you wouldn't be getting any less than the minimum. Not an expert in the area, which is why you should check with Sligo. Would be interesting to know about it if you find out.

You say the Irish state pension is great compared to the German one, I find it hard to believe that German pensioners are worse off than Irish pensioners in relation to living standards, not monetary amounts.

Current pensioners retired under a different system to the one I pay in to. Under the Hartz reforms, Germany changed an awful lot wrt. welfare and pensions were also reduced. Please also note that unlike in Ireland "pensioners" in Germany receive different amounts, depending on how much they earned. A German pensioner could be in receipt of over 2k a month, if he'd contributed a lot to the system. If he'd contributed nothing, he'd get something like €370 per month. You could be anywhere in between, depending on what you contributed. In Ireland, most pensioners will get the same full payment of 230pw, so long as they made their contributions, regardless of how big those contributions were. Different systems basically.

I worked in London a long time ago, are you suggesting that I can pay €253 a year and get a full UK pension? No way. That's about 10K lump sun right now over say 40 years, please sign me up.

The UK minimum qualification period is much higher, some decades IIRC.

You should certainly check it out with the DWP (in Newcastle I think) to see if it's possible and what it'll cost you. Certainly some Brits I know in Germany pay voluntary contributions to avail of the pension as the contributions are low in their opinion, relative to what they (should) get out.