Geothermal ESB costs for a year

NIGO15, could you avoid typing in all CAPS. vBulletin automatically converts this so that the first letter of each word is capitalised. This makes posts more difficult to read.
Cheers,
Leo
 
I am hoping to go down the geothermal route provided i have enough space, my site is 0.75 acre and i plan to build a 2000 - 2200 sq ft house and garage should i have enough space for the pipes, site is totally flat with no trees. Also i see alot of posts on the cost per day to run the heat pumps is it possible to use a small wind mill to run the pump if so is there people out there doing it my site is quite high and it seems that wind when available should be utilised
 
I heard the Heat pump draws to much power for a small wind turbine to handle, i am also interested if there is someone who has sucessfully tried this
 
dmac said:
I am hoping to go down the geothermal route provided i have enough space, my site is 0.75 acre and i plan to build a 2000 - 2200 sq ft house and garage should i have enough space for the pipes, site is totally flat with no trees. Also i see alot of posts on the cost per day to run the heat pumps is it possible to use a small wind mill to run the pump if so is there people out there doing it my site is quite high and it seems that wind when available should be utilised
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You will find that the power required by the heat pump, I guess at between 3.1Kw and 5Kw can't be supplied by a small domestic wind turbine running at max 2Kw. A 1.5kw wind/solar electricity farm will cost you upwards of €6,000.
 
Just wondering which method is healthier for yourself, heating system with rads or under floor?
 
nod said:
Just wondering which method is healthier for yourself, heating system with rads or under floor?
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Apparently the UFH is the better system. Rads create convection and draughts, hot air rises mostly straight up. Again, apparently this moves dust around in the circulating air, allergens and all that jazz. If you have cold feet, the only way you get them warm is by putting your feet on the radiator! You'll still have cold feet, but you'll have a stifling, muggy heat around the upper body.
If your feet are warm, you're most likely to feel generally warm anyway, which is why UFH requires less heat. That makes perfect sense to me, because if I go to bed with cold feet, it can takes me hours to fall asleep.

I've been following these posts for the same reasons: want to install GHP and UFH, but being new to Ireland, want to see who's good and root out the cowboys, as well as find out how effective (and cost-effective) it is.
 
My friend in Meath has a 3500 sq ft house (mansion?). It was built last year with geothermal installed. He has estimated the cost of running the geothermal pumps, etc amounted to over 2000 euro for the whole of a year. It took him quite a bit to figure out how much the geothermal system was using.

He ended up taking a walk around with an Electrisave monitor (they seem to be available in ireland now - see here: [broken link removed] - no connection to the company) and figured out a whole load of other things also, such as the exorbiant cost of running his fancy kitchen lighting (around 20 spotlights).

The message that I took from all of this is that you need to approach renewable energy systems as a whole - no single system will solve all your problems. I agree with davidoco about the ineffectiveness of wind turbines to cover the costs of running large pumps. In fact, I've been wondering whether installers are overspecifying the pumps in some cases?
 
mugatu said:
My friend in Meath has a 3500 sq ft house (mansion?). It was built last year with geothermal installed. He has estimated the cost of running the geothermal pumps, etc amounted to over 2000 euro for the whole of a year. It took him quite a bit to figure out how much the geothermal system was using.
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our house is 3500 sq foot also. The GSHP running costs were around 900. (not estimated). Wonder if his soil is unsuitable?

Also you can get low wattage downlighters, we have about 30 of them, and don't find them expensive to run. I think they are 'robus'.
 
Very interested in this topic and just wondering if I could use geothermal for the following:

I am planning to add a 2 storey extension to my house. I live in an Dublin and have a convential gadren c.70ft in length. I know most of the posters have large sites which are ideal for collectors but I have heard with a smallish garden another option is go go VERY DEEP. If anyone can point me in the right direction on this it would be much appreciated.

thanks
Roy
 
Onekeano,

Any of the geothermal providers will over a verticle collector if required, just be aware this is alot costlier than a horizontal collector.

Mugatu,

i think there is a problem with the system your mate is using has a problem, although you should enquire to his level of insulation, there is no point in heating the atmosphere i always say, a house of that size should only cost €1,000 a year to heat and hot water.
 
Thanks Joe, just did a bit of research and saw one mention of 26k for horizontal collector (think it was for a new build). The grant appears to be 6.5k for this type of collector which is great. If anyone has put geothermal into an standard semi-detached house I'd be very grateful if they could advise on their experience.

The other thing I was wondering is should I look for a single provider for the solar panels and geothermal solution? If so is there any one provider that people would recommend?

thanks again
Roy


JoeHooker said:
Onekeano,

Any of the geothermal providers will over a verticle collector if required, just be aware this is alot costlier than a horizontal collector.

Mugatu,

i think there is a problem with the system your mate is using has a problem, although you should enquire to his level of insulation, there is no point in heating the atmosphere i always say, a house of that size should only cost €1,000 a year to heat and hot water.
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Hi Fisherman,
I am interested in finding out where in Poland you found the heatpump supplier and who you got to bring it home and for what price? Its the same old story here in Ireland, you pay premium prices for standard off the shelf products in any other country and any grants there are appear to be gobbled up by the suppliers.
 
hi jool,ordered thermia diplomat tws 10 last week from polish distributor nordica.com.pl(look up thermia homepage).there is a10 week delay before pump is ready for collection in poland (comes from sweden)and price was quoted as 40559 kroner or 4446 euro plus irish vat of 21%.. i have been quoted price of 600 euro by dublin company to bring it from gdansk to west cork.
 
Hi all, just came across this discussion, I may be able to add some info and hopefully learn some more myself. I installed a GSHP early in 2001 and while its not been as efficiant as I hoped even after much tweaking its been working away for six years now and from what I can make out Im still making a saving from oil. The house is 3200 sq ft, timber frame, high insulation spec, underfloor domstairs, alum rads upstairs, but my total ESB for last year was just over €2000, (Lights, heating and water and everything) this may be due too my soil type which is very sandy, although at the time I was told it was ideal, or the fact that I have a small workshop which I use regularly. Never the less, I have made a few observations over the last few years;
Carpets definately do slow down/stifle the heat emmision from the floor, we have one in the living room and I had to lift it and remove the underlay but its still a slow room to heat up,
Floating laminate floors are worse, I used a 2 mm foam layer between the floor and boards on one room which probably didnt help,
I have tiles everywhere else and they are ideal,
Long cold dry snaps the pump struggles to keep the house up to temperature with a noticable difference as soon as it rains,
My system is quite old now compared to the new ones and my pump only brings the water temp to about 35 degrees C and its boosted at night with the immersion which Im sure adds a lot to the ESB cost also,
Even so the whole cost of installation was only 12k so Im not sure an upgrade is justified yet,
Any comments?
 
I think your ESB bill of €2000 for a year is very good, Surfsearcher. Have you bothered with nightsaver? esp. with the fact you are heating the water at night with the Immersion.

Fair play to you for putting it in 6 years ago.
 
Thanks, I wasnt sure how economical I was being and have been seeing figures of €900 to €1200 for a 3500 sq ft house which sounds excellent, I wonder does this include the normal domestic ESB also or just the pump?, Yes I had the nightsaver meter installed in the beginning, its essential, I run washing machines etc only at night and have cfl bulbs all round etc, my total averave usage is aprox 20,200 units /anum with aprox 60% of this used on the nightsaver, I can work out exact figures if anyone wants.
Yea it was a bit daunting putting the system in at first that long ago, nobody else had ever heared of geothermal and I had a load of people arrive at the door asking questions etc but a good learning experience.
Any comments on how suitable very sandy soil is? I would have thought damp boggy clay type was better?
Cheers,
 
surfsearcher said:
Thanks, I wasnt sure how economical I was being and have been seeing figures of €900 to €1200 for a 3500 sq ft house which sounds excellent, I wonder does this include the normal domestic ESB also or just the pump?, ,
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They were my figures you saw. Thats just the geothermal costs. I put a separate meter on this to keep a check on running costs.


surfsearcher said:
Yea it was a bit daunting putting the system in at first that long ago, nobody else had ever heared of geothermal and I had a load of people arrive at the door asking questions etc but a good learning experience.,
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I know the feeling ;)

surfsearcher said:
Any comments on how suitable very sandy soil is? I would have thought damp boggy clay type was better?
Cheers,
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sandy soil is not supposed to be very good, as it drains too quick, but sure if it's working don't worry about it.
 
qwerty? said:
They were my figures you saw. Thats just the geothermal costs. I put a separate meter on this to keep a check on running costs.

Thats good to here, I dont feel so bad now although I recently recieved my final bill for this year and it was a bit worse than last year so I have just analysed the total averages since 2002, brief summary as follows;

Average units used per anum 21,274 Average day units 9,374 44%Average night units 11,900 56%

Note this is for total ESB costs, GSHP, lights immersion etc,
I estimate the heat pump to use approx 60% of the total which would equate to about 12,760 units/annum.

sandy soil is not supposed to be very good, as it drains too quick, but sure if it's working don't worry about it.
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Yes that makes sense although my anual figures probably are not that bad overall considering Im using rads and immersion, in a few years time I might upgrade to a borehole, Im close to the beach and could probably hit groundwater very easilly. In hindsight this would have been the better collector to use.
Does anyone know if the grants available are relative to the heat pump , the collector or the whole system? Can I just upgrade the collector and get the full grant? That would almost pay for it!
 
So I have being reading thru this thread a couple of times , and the info here is invaluable , no contractor would ever tell you whats being discussed here .. I am getting ready for my build early next year (feb 08), and here is what i have come up with... SIP panel Timber Frame built (just submitted plans to SIP/Tek style TF companys) on a well insulated foundation, (still working out kinks for foudation) underfloor heating via geothermal up and downstairs, 1st floor will be joist based, and UFH installed accordingly (check out Sei.ie or Wavin.Uk.... no affiliation !!) still undecided on insulation for roof/attic,/slate/ecoslate I am currently waiting for prices on windows from contrators found here at AAM, for Dbl glazed argon filled aluclad style windows and doors.

One problem I have with UFH is I want to use a wide plank natural plank for floor , but I no this probably end up warping wth radiant heat !! , one soloution is this .. I have being in contact with a flooring company based in york, pensalvannia U.S. who deal in recaimed wood from old barns and railway sleepers.. any wood that has being exposed to the harsh winters and searing hot summers here in the U.S. has to be able to stand up to a radiant heat system , this requires further investigation ...!!

I am welcome to any suggestions or criticism or questions with this post... Good luck to All


MudHut
 
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