Garda pay

[cremeegg]

That's a tad simplistic.

Would you care to explain why you think that.

Should the fact that there would likely be multiple applications for your job rule out the possibility of a pay rise for you?

If it were true, yes. The reality is that some time ago I told my boss that I felt under remunerated and he should do something about it if he wanted to retain my services. As I work in the private sector this was his decision made in his economic best interests and with no political considerations entering into it. Unfortunately public sector pay is in part dictated by the governments desire to win public sector votes, rather than what is best for the job.

What we really need is more Gardaí.

Why do you think this. I know that there has been international comparisons which point to us being over supplied with police

 

[michaelm]

Would you care to explain why you think that.

I thought I did. Most peoples jobs would attract multiple applications if advertised but that would be a simplistic and cut-throat basis for denying a pay rise or justifying a pay cut. People should be paid a fair wage which reflects, amongst other things, the conditions under which they work.

I know that there has been international comparisons which point to us being over supplied with police

Really? Compared to Niger or Kenya maybe. We have more police per capita than the Scandinavian countries but far fewer than most of the rest of Europe. Crime is rife in Ireland and many people don't feel safe on the streets at night or even in their beds. If we're over supplied what do you think we can get that down to? 8000 maybe?

 

[cremeegg]

I thought I did. Most peoples jobs would attract multiple applications if advertised but that would be a simplistic and cut-throat basis for denying a pay rise or justifying a pay cut. People should be paid a fair wage which reflects, amongst other things, the conditions under which they work.

Gardi have a dangerous and difficult job, and the pay should be sufficient to attract people into the Gardai, but it is unreasonable to expect the taxpayer to pay more than that. In fact the last recruitment drive had more than 100 applicants per vacancy, not 30 as I said above.

"A new class of 100 trainees, the first since the embargo came in five years ago, was taken into the Garda training college in Templemore in September. Some 25,000 people applied for the positions." http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/number-of-gardaí-in-dublin-city-down-15-since-2009-1.1996359


I suggested that we may be over supplied with police.

Really? Compared to Niger or Kenya maybe. We have more police per capita than the Scandinavian countries but far fewer than most of the rest of Europe. Crime is rife in Ireland and many people don't feel safe on the streets at night or even in their beds. If we're over supplied what do you think we can get that down to? 8000 maybe?

AT a force of 12,000 Ireland has 252 gardai per 100,000 of population, less than the US at 266, more than the UK at 227. The management of those numbers leaves much to be desired.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Gardi have a dangerous and difficult job, and the pay should be sufficient to attract people into the Gardai, but it is unreasonable to expect the taxpayer to pay more than that.

What pay should they have?

[QUOTE="AT a force of 12,000 Ireland has 252 gardai per 100,000 of population, less than the US at 266, more than the UK at 227. [/QUOTE]

In comparisons, inter alia, governmental investment in modern investigative skills & criminal technology together with economies of scale matter just as much as head counting.

 

[Purple]

It's hard to understand why anyone wants to be a Guard or a nurse at this stage, I don't think either job is worth the pay given the conditions. There should be twice as many Guards and many more beds in hospitals. It's time for an end to FEMPI and the PS Pension Levy/Tax too and if the PS unions weren't spineless then FEMPI would be gone already.

Average pay is €66,000 plus a pension which must be worth a minimum of €20,000 a year. That's an average package worth €86,000 (could be slightly higher or lower). They are far and away the best paid group in the public sector. How much do you think they should be paid?
You are looking for increases in numbers and increases in pay back to levels which were unsustainable even when funded by taxes from a property boom. How do you propose we pay for it? Are you in favour of water charges and large increases in property tax? How about a levy on wages in the private sector?

 

[Vanessa]

A pension in 30/35 years wont pay the mortgage now. Averaging out the wages is similar. I personally wouldnt do the job for the money they are getting. Any person joining up for 500 a week before tax is a fool. Get transferred to Kerry or Donegal and the first thing you need is a very reliable car. Aftrt a car and lodgings there wouldnt be much left of your post tax income. But then like nursing its a vocation so pay them This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language. And they get overtime Big deal!

 

[Delboy]

Whats the average pay for a nurse in Ireland?

 

[Sophrosyne]

What is an average nurse?

 

[Purple]

A pension in 30/35 years wont pay the mortgage now. Averaging out the wages is similar. I personally wouldnt do the job for the money they are getting. Any person joining up for 500 a week before tax is a fool. Get transferred to Kerry or Donegal and the first thing you need is a very reliable car. Aftrt a car and lodgings there wouldnt be much left of your post tax income. But then like nursing its a vocation so pay them This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language. And they get overtime Big deal!

Are you suggesting that they should reduce their pension entitlement so that they get paid more at the start of their career?

 

[michaelm]

Average pay is €66,000 plus a pension which must be worth a minimum of €20,000 a year. That's an average package worth €86,000 (could be slightly higher or lower). They are far and away the best paid group in the public sector. How much do you think they should be paid?
You are looking for increases in numbers and increases in pay back to levels which were unsustainable even when funded by taxes from a property boom. How do you propose we pay for it? Are you in favour of water charges and large increases in property tax? How about a levy on wages in the private sector?

I think they should be well paid and that they generally do an excellent job. In my opinion they should be paid similar money to teachers and nurses as being able to retire in your early 50's is a massive bonus. The Garda pay structure should be simplified, more Garda employed, overtime eliminated.

The criminal justice system has been run into the ground, not enough Gardaí, court sittings or prison places. How you pay for it is a different matter . . perhaps it would be partly self-financing in that reduced crime could help tourism and consumer spending . . a bonfire of the quangos would surely free up a lot of money . . I think people are willing to pay more tax for proper public services.

How about a levy on wages in the private sector?

Keep your hair on.

 

[Ceist Beag]

I think people are willing to pay more tax for proper public services

I would agree with that Michael but personally I am not happy to pay more tax to facilitate Gardai retiring at 50 on a pension that continues to match increments to working Gardai. I think the pot of cash available to the public sector is quite enough but the distribution is the issue here. Give less to those who have retired and distribute it towards those working. Obviously that won't happen but that would be my view on it.

 

[Purple]

I think people are willing to pay more tax for proper public services.

We doubled spending on health in 8 years and saw no real improvement in services.
Between 200 and 2008 the average pay levels in the public sector went up by 59% ([broken link removed]). I don't think there was a corresponding improvement in services in any State run sector.
I'd like to see us get up to the OECD or EU average when it comes to value for money in State run services. That would save us billions, which could be spent on better facilities and more services.

 

[michaelm]

Health is intractable. Had we not increased spending on Health surely there would have been a serious deterioration in services. A&E is a war zone and a national disgrace but once you're past that the service is not bad. More beds and more nurses required.

There were significant wage rises across the economy between 2000 and 2008, everyone was running to stand still. Public service pay levels have been cut back since. It easy to bandy about percentages eg. inflation was close to 40% across those years.

No doubt we can all agree on a desire for value for money services.

 

[Firefly]

I would agree with that Michael but personally I am not happy to pay more tax to facilitate Gardai retiring at 50 on a pension that continues to match increments to working Gardai.

I agree with this. We constantly hear of organisations across the public sector who lack resources (even the Gardai themselves). If the Gardai who reach 50 cannot be on the beat, surely they could work to 65 like everyone else and do admin or work elsewhere in the public sector.

 

[Purple]

I agree with this. We constantly hear of organisations across the public sector who lack resources (even the Gardai themselves). If the Gardai who reach 50 cannot be on the beat, surely they could work to 65 like everyone else and do admin or work elsewhere in the public sector.

On their pay levels that would cost us more.
They should be well paid and they can't work until they are 65 or 68 but they have a good package at the moment so they should keep their head down.

 

[dereko1969]

I thought I did. Most peoples jobs would attract multiple applications if advertised but that would be a simplistic and cut-throat basis for denying a pay rise or justifying a pay cut. People should be paid a fair wage which reflects, amongst other things, the conditions under which they work.Really? Compared to Niger or Kenya maybe. We have more police per capita than the Scandinavian countries but far fewer than most of the rest of Europe. Crime is rife in Ireland and many people don't feel safe on the streets at night or even in their beds. If we're over supplied what do you think we can get that down to? 8000 maybe?

On what basis are you stating that crime is rife? The perception that it is is certainly out there, fuelled by media reports that have little basis in fact and have more to do with making us afraid.

 

[Purple]

Health is intractable. Had we not increased spending on Health surely there would have been a serious deterioration in services. A&E is a war zone and a national disgrace but once you're past that the service is not bad. More beds and more nurses required.

Once you are in it's still quite bad. We spend a very high proportion of our very large budget in pay. We can either have very good facilities and occupational training or we can spend that money on pay rises. We spent it on pay during the boom. Maybe we should learn a lesson and start running our Public Health Service in the interest of the Public.

There were significant wage rises across the economy between 2000 and 2008, everyone was running to stand still. Public service pay levels have been cut back since. It easy to bandy about percentages eg. inflation was close to 40% across those years.

It was 35.9% ([broken link removed])

 

[Purple]

On what basis are you stating that crime is rife? The perception that it is is certainly out there, fuelled by media reports that have little basis in fact and have more to do with making us afraid.

Murder is down, sex crimes are up. Everything else is about the same. ([broken link removed])

 

[Purple]

In my opinion they should be paid similar money to teachers and nurses as being able to retire in your early 50's is a massive bonus. The Garda pay structure should be simplified, more Garda employed, overtime eliminated.

That would mean massive pay cuts for them. I don't think that would be a runner.

 

[Purple]

It was 35.9% ([broken link removed])

That means that Primary Teachers and Prison Officers say a reduction in their purchasing power over that period by 6.49% and 8.95% respectively. Gardai saw in increase of 9.08% 910.93% excluding overtime) and Secondary Teachers by 22.43%. Third Level pay increased by a massive 34.78% above the rate of inflation. No wonder fees went up! (Call them Registration Charges if you like but a fart by any other name...).