Fiscal Council: Up to €6 billion of Corporation Tax may be temporary

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WolfeTone

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They will go to their home country or China or another cheaper Asian country or to the mainland where they have access to a much bigger and better educated workforce which speaks English (Poland, Holland etc) and have better access to suppliers and markets.
If that is the case, then you are in favor of Ireland stealing taxes from other countries?
 

Purple

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If that is the case, then you are in favor of Ireland stealing taxes from other countries?
You answer first.
Are you in favour of us continuing to steal taxes from poor countries in order to fund our public services?
Do you now accept that they can easily leave Ireland with few if any negative consequences if we have to stop stealing taxes from poor people?
 

WolfeTone

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What's the capacity of Ireland's private hospitals in terms of scans and elective surgeries?
Im not sure.

What would be the waiting lists for same in our public system if they didn't exist?
I couldn't say, but arguably less people waiting.

How many more doctors and consultants would fly off to Australia, Canada, US, Dubai etc if they were only being paid public rates?
None, dont you know, they already earn between €200-€300k without having to work weekends, apparently.
 

Sunny

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Outside the EU isn't our main competition for God's sake. Do you think setting up in Ireland is the only way to get into the EU or something. I can see this is going to end up being another of the pointless threads that you get involved in and stay involved in like the claims culture one. It's pointless and am out. Purple, all yours!
 

WolfeTone

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It's pointless and am out.
Good, because the discussions were quite reasoned until you interjected. So next time someone references "outside EU" please dont return with an answer like Poland!

And worse, dont try rubbish your way about legal costs not being important and spouting nonsense like the staff coming under stress!
 

WolfeTone

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Do you now accept that they can easily leave Ireland with few if any negative consequences if we have to stop stealing taxes from poor people?
Of course I accept they can easily leave, I have already said that. But they cannot leave without consequence.
So if the EU implements rules that effectively end our favourable tax deals and treats all multinationals equitably across the EU, then why would say, Intel, move to any other country in the EU? From a taxation point of view, there would be no point.
Of course they could move all their EU activities lock, stock and barrel back to US or Costa Rica, or wherever.
But the consequences of that, in the absence of a free trade agreement, would be higher tariffs, barriers to trade etc, into the biggest (2nd) in the world - it sounds like it would be bad for business to me.
So Intel Ire, Microsoft Ire, FB Ire, etc...etc...all have an interest in having a presence in the EU. Ireland is the preference currently because of, amongst other things, our favourable tax regime AND barrier free trade into the SM.
If the favourable tax treatment ends, it still doesn't make an argument to move anywhere else within EU (not even Poland!:rolleyes:) as the tax treatment will be the same across EU.
 

Purple

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So if the EU implements rules that effectively end our favourable tax deals and treats all multinationals equitably across the EU, then why would say, Intel, move to any other country in the EU?
Lower wages, lower income taxes, better infrastructure, better access to markets, better access to skilled labour?
Consequences? Yes. But quite probably positive ones.
 

Purple

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I couldn't say, but arguably less people waiting.
Make the argument. Support that post with something. Anything.
How will reducing the national medical capacity by reducing funding by €2 billion reduce waiting lists?

Im not sure.
But you accept that they have a capacity, that they do tests and scans, yes?
If they weren't there would there be more or fewer scans done?
 

Purple

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None, dont you know, they already earn between €200-€300k without having to work weekends, apparently.
Their basic salary ranges from €123,000 to €190,000. The State also pays their indemnity insurance and they can use their publicly funded rooms and staff for private consultations. They can easily make the same again through their private practice. Therefore my figures were wrong; they earn get paid far more than that.
 

WolfeTone

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Lower wages, lower income taxes, better infrastructure, better access to markets, better access to skilled labour?
Consequences? Yes. But quite probably positive ones.
The discussion is in the context of corporation tax. Next you will be talking about their better educated workforce?

I would be interested in hearing about the specific country in the EU that offers all of that.
 

WolfeTone

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How will reducing the national medical capacity by reducing funding by €2 billion reduce waiting lists
Funding wouldn't be reduced, it would be transferred from private control into public control.
Without private shareholders to feed, the money could be used to open wards, employ nurses, reduce waiting lists.

If they weren't there would there be more or fewer scans done?
More. Funds (from €2bn transfer) could be used to carry out more scans instead of pumping marketing companies with contracts to 'sell' healthcare.
 

WolfeTone

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Their basic salary ranges from €123,000 to €190,000. The State also pays their indemnity insurance and they can use their publicly funded rooms and staff for private consultations. They can easily make the same again through their private practice. Therefore my figures were wrong; they earn get paid far more than that.
So im wondering, will they be leaving for Australia, NZ, Canada, Dubai? Because they are only paid public rates?
Are our public consultants paid too much, or too little?
 

Purple

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The discussion is in the context of corporation tax. Next you will be talking about their better educated workforce?

I would be interested in hearing about the specific country in the EU that offers all of that.
You are being deliberately obtuse because the blatantly obvious doesn't suit your ideological position. You also won't answer any questions. Further discussion on this issue is pointless.
 

Purple

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Funding wouldn't be reduced, it would be transferred from private control into public control.
Without private shareholders to feed, the money could be used to open wards, employ nurses, reduce waiting lists.
Don't be silly.


More. Funds (from €2bn transfer) could be used to carry out more scans instead of pumping marketing companies with contracts to 'sell' healthcare.
Okay, so you would just appropriate the money currently paid by private health insurance policy holders.
Most of those are pensioners; that'll never fly.
 

Purple

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So im wondering, will they be leaving for Australia, NZ, Canada, Dubai? Because they are only paid public rates?
Are our public consultants paid too much, or too little?
No, because of the gross structural incompetence within our health service. You can thank the Unions for that. They have the blood on their hands.
 

WolfeTone

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The point is that we don't just get the €6 billion a year from them, we probably get half out tax take when income tax, VAT and everything else the wages they pay generates is taken into account. So, if the €6 billion goes there will be far more than that going with it.
My question would be is - where are they to go?
what the MNC's actually use Ireland for (what they are paying tax on).
Is that corporation tax you are referring to by any chance?

it is to understand that we are a tax haven
Is that corporate tax haven? Or some other tax you are referring to?

If they have roughly the same tax treatment in the USA they will move their IP etc back there. The tax the MNC's pay here is not based on the activities they carry out here. The main reason they are here and employ people here is we collude with them to evade tax in the rest of the world.
Corporate tax again, yes? No?

Are you in favour of us continuing to steal taxes from poor countries in order to fund our public services?
Are you aware of the corporation tax systems in places like Costa Rica and States like Delaware

The point is that if they leave we lose far more than €6 billion and all it would take is EU or the USA to stop us being a tax haven and they would be gone within a few years. The corporation tax we currently steal from other countries would go first and then, over a longer period, the jobs would go.
They taxes will be paid in the countries in which they business activity takes place.
What tax are you referring to here?

There is nothing holding them here other than our collusion in tax evasion.
I don't evade tax, so dont lump me in with your nefarious activities. Unless of course, you are referring to 'our' as in, this States corporation tax policy?

Does that mean you are not concerned with us losing the billions in tax revenue as long as it stays within the EU?!
The discussion is in the context of corporation tax
You are being deliberately obtuse
:rolleyes:

The truth of the matter is that if the EU applies an equitable corporate tax system throughout the EU (including Poland!) then from the prospective of corporation tax only there would be little incentive for multinationals to move elsewhere in the EU, in my opinion.
Other factors such as Labour costs and educated workforces would come into play but I think you dismissed that earlier for this discussion?

If multinationals bail out to US or Costa Rica or wherever, without a presence in EU, then that just sounds like bad business considering the barriers to trade they will face in trying to trade in the SM.

But I think this is now obvious to you, but rather than accept the legitimate points I make (whether you agree or not) you revert to type and start the personal attacks.
 

WolfeTone

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Don't be silly.
Nothing silly about it at all, its a simple fact.

Okay, so you would just appropriate the money currently paid by private health insurance policy holders.
Most of those are pensioners; that'll never fly.
There are 2.2m private policy insurance holders in this country. There are about 637,567 people aged over 65 according to last census.
Its unlikely all of them hold private insurance policies.

Your statement doesn't add up.
 

Sunny

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Purple, we need to find you a hobby. If you are not fighting off English Invaders, you are fighting with Irish revolutionary figures about nonsense...
 
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