Financial Brokers article - 3.5-5% initial commission.

Setforlife

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Interesting bits of information in this, especially about fees and which ones make a firm appetising to takeover. Some eye opening information on the fees also, I’d not seen the level of initial lump sum commission in writing before, seems like if the life companies offered this bonus to their customers directly and allowed easier access they would clean up.

The Irish market is heavily based on upfront commissions on products that garner commissions,” he said. “There is a real opportunity to change the market from product-orientation to more service-orientation, working out a client’s financial goals and supporting that with extremely robust investment products solutions.”

The typical cost structure involves brokers securing 3.5 per cent to 5 per cent initial commissions from life and pension or investment firms for lump sums invested on behalf of clients, industry players say.

The client then pays a so-called trail commission of about 1 per cent a year, with the broker taking about a quarter of this and the rest going to the life firm.
 
if the life companies offered this bonus to their customers directly and allowed easier access they would clean up.

I think you can pretty much get this commission indirectly by buying through an execution-only broker like LA Brokers or bond.ie.

If you take out a product through them, you get lower charges for the life of the product and usually reduced or no exit charges.
 
Interesting bits of information in this, especially about fees and which ones make a firm appetising to takeover. Some eye opening information on the fees also, I’d not seen the level of initial lump sum commission in writing before, seems like if the life companies offered this bonus to their customers directly and allowed easier access they would clean up.

This exists already.

In 2007, we started managed funds with Eagle Star, now Zurich.

As we used a discount, execution-only broker, the 3.5% commission was added to the inital contribution.

Instead, we paid €150 fixed fee to the broker.
 
Thanks, not really the easy access bit though. The difficult part/not easy is having to go via the broker at all to begin with, as they are the ones people can’t be sure of and who to trust. if you could go the the Aviva or Zurich or Royal London site etc and just do it direct via their interface it would be a lot less off putting for the average consumer.
 
You don't have to deal with a broker.

Brokers - advisory services - have (at a guess) about 75% of the market. The rest is divided between direct sales and tied-agents (including the banks).

You can buy products from the direct sales forces of New Ireland, Irish Life and Zurich Life or from a Bank without going near a 'broker'.

The 'avearge' consumer (I'd say 94%+ of them) buy products with advice. If you only live on AAM and Reditt you'll convince yourself that it's 94% of them want to rock up to product providers and 'buy' pensions and life assurance savings and investment products of their own free will.

If you have no respect for brokers or don't see any value that they might bring to a transaction, don't use them. Honestly, the sooner Brendan introduces a block function so that posters can block the brokers that make meaningful contributions to AAM, the better. Those contributions must be very offsensive to the eyes of those who don't want to use them.

Gerard

Anti-Broker
Anti-Charges

(Well that's what a broker on Reditt said I was lately)
 
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If you have no respect for brokers or don't see any value that they might bring to a transaction, don't use them.
I have no respect for the broker/insurance salesman. I have respect for financial advisors who add value. Anyone posting on here seems to be adding value.
 
Honestly, the sooner Brendan introduces a block function so that posters can block the brokers that make meaningful contributions to AAM, the better.
You keep bringing this up without saying who you're talking about. I have not blocked/ignored anyone on AAM.

If you have grievances on Reddit, take it up there.
 
If you have no respect for brokers or don't see any value that they might bring to a transaction, don't use them. Honestly, the sooner Brendan introduces a block function so that posters can block the brokers that make meaningful contributions to AAM, the better. Those contributions must be very offsensive to the eyes of those who don't want to use them.
I have a great deal of respect for advisors and especially for the ones on ask about money and/or running podcasts/youtube channels etc so you can get a feel for them and their attitudes and knowledge. It’s incredibly valuable. I also have great respect for my own advisor.

However I’d personally like more clear and safe options to deal directly with all the people selling products into Irish market, in fact I think it should be a requirement to sell here to have a simple retail channel that is easy to find. Not ‘contact’ you broker.

Not dissimilar to how the mortgage market is run, not that it’s a shining example but it’s much easier to know exactly what is going on. I had a very poor experience in the past with a well known, recommended and oft interviewed and quoted mortgage broker, that cost me time and money and almost missing out on a home. Possibly that coloured my thinking and Cui bono is my watchword ever since, but the very best deal they could get us was a lot lot lot worse than we could get going direct and I’ve no doubt it is similar out in the investment market it’s just a lot more opaque and hard to decipher.
 
However I’d personally like more clear and safe options to deal directly with all the people selling products into Irish market, in fact I think it should be a requirement to sell here to have a simple retail channel that is easy to find. Not ‘contact’ you broker.


Businesses are free to sell through various channels.

Some airlines use travel agents, other airlines don't pay commission.

Some mortgage lenders only use brokers, other don't.
 
I have no respect for the broker/insurance salesman.
Relevant example:

 

Hmm, that’s two goes to get it to post inline but no luck, unfurl particularly bad, interview with Marc, by Paul
 
Marc and Stephen Barrett and mr Sheehy etc and others from ask about money are some that I would personally trust to talk to even if some are less and less ‘independent’.

I'm humbled that the respect is such that I deserve a mr and not Gerard.

However I’d personally like more clear and safe options to deal directly with all the people selling products into Irish market, in fact I think it should be a requirement to sell here to have a simple retail channel that is easy to find. Not ‘contact’ you broker.

I have a challenge for you.

Start a new thread with a title like 'What a better distribution model for pensions and life assurance savings and investment would look like' and include some figures as to what you might think the initial and ongoing overheads would be, average size of contribution/investment, number of potential clients, breakeven point, profitabilty year (after all initial and ongoing costs are recovered). Then specify what level of knowledge and qualification that you would expect the staff that man that model should have. Are we talking 'just passed my QFA' or something else completely. Who would you expect to be responsible for the Regulated transaction if it's wrong? I mean, execution only clients can and do make mistakes on all these products and the various rules that govern them. The default, when this happens is, it's someone elses fault 'you should have flagged it/advised me etc' that I was making a mistake. 'I expect you to pay for rectifying my mistake'. At what stage does the product provider say 'Hey, this service isn't suitable for you at all. You're just looking for an advisory serrvice at execution only prices'.? Cue the hurt and indignation from the potential customer.

There are enough accountants and actuaries on AAM to assist with the exercise. Who knows, maybe the few eat-the-steak, complain and whine drinkers that frequent these pages will have something meaningful to contribute, for once.


If you feel it's clearer and safer to deal direct with a provider then, as I said above, you can do that. But, if what you really mean is that you want to buy a product directly from them on an execution only basis, then they can provide that service too. If they say they can't/won't do that, ask them why?

Unfortunate that you had a bad experience with the mortgage but it shouldn't damage the integrity of the entire market. In every profession, be they chartered accountants, FAs, estate agents (insert any one that you might need a 'qualification' for) etc., there are about 6% that really shouldn't be there at all. But that's the reality.

I'm wearing the anti-broker, anti-charges tag as a badge of honour because what the fool broker was really saying is that I'm pro-consumer.


But, back to the article.

In summary, the cost of advice is going up. That's the trend, and AMCs (and trail) are on the rise. But, will the pricing gap for execution only model broaden or follow.
 
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I’d actually like to see a thread like that, but I’m not in a position to speak usefully on the subject. I am on some other businesses and I’d certainly understand the perils of running your a business, especially around liability, insurance and for instance having more than 50 staff and the IT regulation it entails.

A lot of people aren’t and a thread about how difficult it is or for example how joining in with a larger firm to take a lot of the risk away is something we will indeed see more and more would be enlightening I’m sure.

I certainly would take and always need good advice on anything important from an expert and I’d expect to pay good money for the advice. In fact as I mentioned I expect to have at least two sets of advice when I come to retire and most likely setup 4xPRSAs. However finding an expert is difficult and challenging and indeed even the ones I mentioned are only looking for ‘high net worth’ individuals to advise. I personally have an advisor but getting one was difficult I was basically being interviewed for the position, not the other way around. I also changed jobs this year and if you want a lot of new friends on LinkedIn whom are financial advisors that’s the way to do it, I was inundated with QFAs wanting to help with pension moves or prsas setup.
I’d like if it was all a bit less opaque, especially about the initial commission but I also understand how the world works. I deal with the ‘public’, pres, politicians on occasion also in work and certainly if I could make them all come via a broker I would also! Certainly if 6% of advisors shouldn’t be there, probably 94% of clients shouldn’t advise themselves but there are growing amounts of people, especially young ones using online investment services because they are there and easy to use. There is a market there for the life and investment companies and no doubt some will go after it soon enough.

It appears most/all of the clients of my advisor are much more ‘high net worth’ than me where the fees and ongoing costs are less significant in the bigger picture. they just need someone to organise it and are willing to pay for it. That’s not really something I can afford as I’m not coming from a cash rich business where the money just keeps coming in.

I’d happily pay the ongoing commission and hope to get a good deal on it, but this and ongoing advise is valuable. What I don’t intend is to pay 5% of my pension for someone to setup 4x PRSAs snd put them into the funds I want or very similar ones. That would be ~ 100k hopefully and I couldn’t trust the advice of someone who was taking that off the top to begin with. That could be the difference for me retiring a year earlier for example.
 
What a better distribution model for pensions and life assurance savings and investment would look like'
Even before getting into the technical details you move on to, you arrive at the issue of people needing advice and this is a big obstacle to whatever direct to consumer type distribution these conversations often seem to be aiming for.

Edit: just read the rest of your post and you're addressing that
 
I’ve no doubt it is similar out in the investment market it’s just a lot more opaque and hard to decipher
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I’d like if it was all a bit less opaque, especially about the initial commission but I also understand how the world works.
But...
I also have great respect for my own advisor

When you asked your advisor about this, were they not able ((unwilling?) to explain how it works to you?

I've not seen 5% initial on an investment but it might be something new that a broker that's on the acquisition trail might have negotiated with a product provider on the promise of a volume of business. In the context of what the article is about, that might add up. Those purchase costs have to be recovered somehow.

No way are you getting hit with a 5% contribution charge of a €2m fund that's split into 4 PRSAs. I doubt you'd even have to worry about a CoBC charge (if it still exists when you come around to doing this).
 
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