Finance Committee meeting Financial Ombudsman tomorrow to discuss trackers.

Discussion in 'Central Bank tracker review' started by skinnylegs, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. SaySomething

    SaySomething Frequent Poster

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    Finally the Chairperson steps in! Should have stopped her sooner.
     
  2. Brendan Burgess

    Brendan Burgess Founder

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    Burton: If you ask young people about car insurance, they will think that they are being robbed

    If people are renting, and move, the insurance cars charge a very high fee for switching address - they used to be €20. Now they are €50 or more.

    It's a hidden cost of renting.
     
  3. Brendan Burgess

    Brendan Burgess Founder

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    Fergal: We are focussed on the price signalling investigation.
     
  4. Brendan Burgess

    Brendan Burgess Founder

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    Burton: In relation to trackers, do you meet the banks on a collective basis? The extraordinary alignment of much of the practices.

    Fergal: We encourage the banks not to meet collectively. We don't meet them collectively either.

    The CB is the sectoral regulator. If they find evidence of collusion, they must notify us. The CB has been looking at trackers for 7 years. We met with the CB earlier this year to discuss the tracker examination and at that stage they had no information of criminal behaviour. If we get any actionable evidence, we will take it forward.

    Burton: In terms of arrears, are the codes strong enough? Do you have any powers in this area? A lot is outsourced. Having made an agreement, themoment the year of the agreement is up, they are back again facing repossession.
     
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  5. Brendan Burgess

    Brendan Burgess Founder

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    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
    [You would really miss Michael McGrath. The Labour Party has really gone down hill

    Seán Sherlock wasn't great, but Joan Burton takes the biscuit.

    Senator Burke beside her is on his mobile phone which is probably what is causing all the interference. ]
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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  6. Brendan Burgess

    Brendan Burgess Founder

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    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
    John McGuinness

    asks Goggin: What are you going to do about it:

    Goggin: Information and education
    We are concerned where products are deliberately complex

    We recommended looking at cash discounts and cash backs in our mortgage paper.

    There are two agencies looking at enforcement, but the CB looks at that.

    McGuinness
    Since 2009, the banks have been exposed for theft. In one bank alone, 20 homes have been lost.
    You say that's because they were losing their shirt on tracker mortgages.

    I am asking you who is supposed to be protecting consumers, who lost not just their shirt, but their homes, what do you say to them?

    I don't see you doing anything.

    Goggin: Big delay. The best way to achieve redress is to leave it to the Central Bank investigation. We have 90 people. The Central Bank has 20 times that number.

    McGuinness: It appears to me that you are doing nothing. We are in this space today because of pressure from other people [not your work].

    You are waiting for a whistle blower. Look at what happened to Maurice McCabe.Do you think anyone will come forward. Look at the 2,000 BoI staff who were refused their trackers because they were financially literate.

    Goggin: It's not within our power to get redress.

    McGuinness: You are consumer protection, aren't you? What are you doing? I keep on asking you... Only today, you used the committee to ask whistleblowers to come forward. Why are you not to the fore in relation to this?

    Goggin: We can't carry out an investigation, without evidence. There must be some employees who are sufficiently annoyed to come forward if there was misbehaviour?

    McGuinness: How else do you collect your information? Do you not actively go out looking for it.

    Goggin: The CB has an obligation to bring any such information to our attention.

    McGuinness: Are you afraid of the banks.

    Goggin: Hearsay evidence is not enough to base an investigation. We are not afraid of banks. We can't do any more than we are already doing. We do need to review it after the CB review is over.

    McGuinness: It wasn't someone at the front desk who took off the trackers, who charged the very high rates. It wasn't someone at the front desk of ptsb, who decided their strategy.

    If all the banks did the same thing at the same time , it stinks of a cartel.

    Have you ever spoken to Padraic Kissane.

    Goggin: No, but I can't see that he would have any evidence.

    McGuinness: How do you know, if you haven't spoken to him?

    [This is the first proper exposure of the CPCC's total lack of action on the tracker issue]

    McGuinness: Have you spoken to Mr Kissanne, mr Deering. [ Brilliant move]

    Deering: Yes,I have met him. He is very experienced and well informed.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  7. Miakk

    Miakk Frequent Poster

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    Go John McGuinness!
     
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  8. Threadser

    Threadser Frequent Poster

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    Well done John McGuinness for such a robust line of questioning!
     
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  9. Mauritius

    Mauritius Frequent Poster

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    An 'apology' from the FSO for wrong decisions on tracker accounts is not anywhere near good enough.
    The Financial Services Ombudsman should make a one off compensation payment of €5,000 to each person they failed to uphold who should have been upheld. The FSO failed these people abysmally and failed at its job. It directly contributed to ongoing misery and financial hardship. It's far too easy indeed to write an "I'm sorry" letter years later and not face any consequences.
    As McGuinness put it:

    McGuinness: It appears to me that you are doing nothing. We are in this space today because of pressure from other people [not your work].
     
  10. Brendan Burgess

    Brendan Burgess Founder

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    Are you not confusing what he said to the Ombudsman to what he said to the CPCC? The CPCC did nothing. The FSO has no role other than to adjudicate fairly on complaints.

    Brendan
     
  11. SaySomething

    SaySomething Frequent Poster

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    Yes, Pearse Doherty was the one who called on the FSO to make an apology to customers within 74% of tracker complaints not upheld who subsequently receive their tracker back.
     
  12. Mauritius

    Mauritius Frequent Poster

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    Correct. But the FSO didn't make the correct decisions in many cases and I find it very hard to see how that can be justified by an apology.
    I should have quoted this part:

    Pearse: You rejected 74% of complaints. Although some should have been rejected, I would bet my house that you made some serious errors. The lender tortured people based on the fact that they had an FSO decision in their favour.

    You have a responsibility to review all these to see if they were rejected.

    The FSO needs to apologise to these customers individually.

    I commend the FSO for making sure that the banks have included all cases.

    Deering: I accept that if the banks give back a tracker where we rejected, then we were in the wrong and will apologise.
     
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  13. SaySomething

    SaySomething Frequent Poster

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    I think it's very interesting that Ger Deering mentioned that the banks withheld information from them on occasion (but says it doesn't happen that often). He referred to the well known High Court case which was withdrawn based upon a phone call recording which was not originally disclosed to the FSO during the complaint.

    @notabene was able to get a copy of emails after her FSO decision where the bank engaged in underhand practises when dealing with the FSO.

    I have an issue where a copy of my mortgage contract was withheld from the FSO.

    That's 3 cases where the banks withheld information from the FSO that I can verify for certain. I'm aware of many other cases where I don't know the customer but have heard @PadKiss mention them.

    The FSO makes/made his decisions based upon the best information available to him at the time. The culture of the banks seems to be to give the FSO an edited version of files designed to engineer the outcome in their favour.
     
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  14. skinnylegs

    skinnylegs Registered User

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    @SaySomething I think that Mr Deering, as well as being fair, will prove to be a very strong advocate on behalf of the consumer when it comes down to it.
    The consumer protection crowd came out very poorly of this morning sessions.Their powers, or the will to use them, seem very inadequate.
     
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  15. Miakk

    Miakk Frequent Poster

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    I think it’s fair to say that mr Deering was not at the helm when most of these (apparently) erroneous FSO decisions were made & the banks seemed to play the FSO ... but what is the consequence (if any) for the most recent previous FSO?

    I believe that prior to the FSO he also worked for the Competition Authority, as it was called at the time. He is now in another €€€ position as CEO of the Irish medical council.

    Can he be called before the committee on his handling of this issue and put through the same vigor as today’s attendees?

    I think he is getting away scot free , just like the banks, and it adds insult to injury that he has not been called to account on how he ran his office at such a critical time
     
  16. Andy836

    Andy836 Frequent Poster

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    How this guy puts on his shoes correctly is a mystery to me. Is there anyone on the Cmmttee that is on top of their brief and isn't looking for a soundbite?

    To clarify. They most certainly did not have German banks in saying the could provide 10 year rates at just 1%. The representative from Germany made it crystal clear, they would not be entering the irish market and would not be extending loans to Irish borrowers. It was for the Irish to sort it out themselves and the Germans would help them set up a central shared servicing/processing unit. Not a cent of German capital was offered.
     
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  17. todo

    todo Frequent Poster

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    Agreed well done to John McGuinness, the CPCC should be called again in 30 days time to give update on what they have achieved in the 30 days.
     
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  18. Mauritius

    Mauritius Frequent Poster

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    'I believe that prior to the FSO he also worked for the Competition Authority, as it was called at the time. He is now in another €€€ position as CEO of the Irish medical council.
    Can he be called before the committee on his handling of this issue and put through the same vigor as today’s attendees?'

    Absolutely right @Miakk - Bill Prasifka should be called in to answer for his failings that blighted so many lives.
    Here's where to find him:
    https://www.medicalcouncil.ie/News-...ems/Medical-Council-s-New-CEO-Announced-.html
     
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  19. TrackerThieves

    TrackerThieves New Member

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    I've watched all the tracker finance committee meetings/dail discussions to date, haven't seen this one yet. I've noticed Joan Burton involved in the odd meeting and really cant remember anything worthwhile she had added. From what i can see she added here she really is useless and no idea why she is involved
     
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  20. IdesofMarch

    IdesofMarch Registered User

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    Isolde Goggins wants evidence of a bank cartel to fall into her lap like manna from heaven. Is the head of our Competition and CONSUMER PROTECTION Commission that naive. Get out there and do your job, investigate!
     
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