Faulty Island chairs

Discussion in 'Consumer Issues and Rights' started by Daisy55, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. Daisy55

    Daisy55 New Member

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    2
    Hi All,

    I hope you can help me with an issue I am having. I bought 4 island chairs(bar stools)

    when I purchased my new kitchen all from a high end kitchen designer. Each chair cost 250 euro so it was a big investment at the time but they were sold as high quality hard wearing leather chairs so I felt it was a lifetime investment purchase.

    Two years later and the chairs are all tearing at the seams. I contacted a furniture upholster to see if they could repair them I sent on the pictures and they said the following "There is not enough leather/leatherette to gather in order to make a stitch. The manufacturer didn't allow enough in the back of the chair that's why it has bust in this fashion" I enquired about getting them recovered but it was working out the same price as a new chair. Please see attached pictures.
    So I decided to contact the kitchen guys to see if there was anything they could do as it seemed that this was an manufactures fault.
    The kitchen guy came back and said there was a year warranty on them and we were out of that so there was nothing they could do and if I wanted to purchase new ones they wouldn't have then in till Janurary. I then pushed back on them as I was so disappointed and I wouldn't be able to afford to replace these chairs again at that price, and I really felt at that price I though these chairs would last a lifetime. I also pushed my consumer rights and that I felt they were faulty goods.
    They came back again to me saying that they are doing up their showrooms and that they had some of those chairs that they used in it, they were years old a little worn but no tears.. they only have three of them while I need four chairs.
    My question is should I except they chairs (I haven't seen there condition of them)or do I have any rights to request they repair mine or replace them with new ones.
    Thanks in advance for your help.
    Thanks
     
  2. Brendan Burgess

    Brendan Burgess Founder

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    33,372
    I think a year's warranty is enough.

    I don't think that there is any extra guarantee for paying €250 each for them unless they gave you some additional guarantee.

    If you have advertising from the time saying that they will last years or that they are long-wearing, you might have some moral right, but I doubt if you would have any legal right.

    If they are a big brand name, then you should contact the manufacturers who might be more caring about their reputation.

    Brendan
     
  3. noproblem

    noproblem Frequent Poster

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    If they're offering three chairs i'd grab them if I was you. You give the impression that everything was designed, not manufactured, so i'd imagine they don't produce anything at all. A massive difference between a high end designer and a high end manufacturer. In fact they're not comparable at all.
     
  4. mathepac

    mathepac Frequent Poster

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    I disagree @Brendan. Under current consumer legislation, 6 years, supported by Irish case law and EU legislation, is the minimum for consumer goods. They must fit the criteria

    fit for purpose
    of merchantable quality
    as described.

    12 months use for kitchen chairs at €250 each would lead a resonable person to conclude they were not fit for purpose and if words or ads used pre-sale made a case for them being long-lasting and/or hard-wearing, then they are not as described.

    Slam dunk small claims court case as far as I am concerned but IANAL.
     
  5. Daisy55

    Daisy55 New Member

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    2
    Thanks for your reply.

    I did look into it and I felt that as the purpose of the chair was for daily use in the kitchen it should be fit for purpose and looking into it a lot of info said that for the likes of couch or other furniture of high value that you would expect to get a longer life span out of and if not that you would have grounds to say it was not fit for purpose., I actually feel that they were faulty as the upholster advised.

    Thank mathepac, thats what I though but do you think I should except the showroom ones that they are getting rid of? I'm not one for complaining normally but as I spent so much on them I really did think they would last a long time.
     
  6. mathepac

    mathepac Frequent Poster

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    What is it you want? Seven sub-standard or worn-out chairs or four chairs of the quality you thought you were buying originally? Personally, I'd want what I paid a hard-earned €1,000 for.
     
  7. peemac

    peemac Frequent Poster

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    Can you post a link for this new EU consumer legislation?

    I'm in retail for over 25 years, keep fairly up to date with legislation via retail excellence Ireland, and haven't been made aware of this new European legislation.

    Can't even find anything about it online.
     
  8. Gordon Gekko

    Gordon Gekko Frequent Poster

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    Having just paid €550 each for similar items, and shopped around, I’m not convinced that €250 constitutes “high end”.
     
  9. noproblem

    noproblem Frequent Poster

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    Maybe the pair of ye got screwed.
     
  10. Gordon Gekko

    Gordon Gekko Frequent Poster

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    We’re delighted with ours, but such is life
     
  11. mathepac

    mathepac Frequent Poster

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    I'm not the least surprised as the majority of retailers in Ireland are unaware of the legislation or behave as if they are. The attitude seems to be "if we pretend they (consumers) have no rights other than what we tell them they have, we win".

    Basic consumer legislation in Ireland is enshrined in the sale of goods and supply of services act 1980, is not new and is overlooked or simply ignored more often than its applied to consumers. Almost 40 years after its inception, it's still the best-kept secret in the Irish retail industry.

    Most of the legislation is summarised here http://www.citizensinformation.ie/e..._rights/consumers_and_the_law_in_ireland.html free.

    Looking at https://www.retailexcellence.ie I see nothing in their 2018 programme about consumer legislation education and their slogan "TOGETHER WE'RE STRONGER" conjures up images of a "them", consumers, vs. "US", poor put-upon retailers. I may sign up as a member to get an accurate insider's view as to whether this is, as was alleged about certain SIMI committees and sub-groups, simply a price-fixing cartel and self-interest group.
     
  12. peemac

    peemac Frequent Poster

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    You said there was EU legislation - here's your own words "6 years, supported by Irish case law and EU legislation, is the minimum for consumer goods."

    That is factually incorrect and it why some consumers come into retail outlets claiming "rights" that they don't have because someone said it on some online forum. The link you give is for IRISH legislation not EU legislation and it for MAXIMUM of 6 years not minimum as you incorrectly have stated.

    The good news for the OP is the as the Irish legislation is stronger than the minimum standards set out by the EU consumer legislation (2 years), the Irish sale of goods act applies.

    If the fault occurs within 6 months it is considered assumed that the fault was there at manufacture and the consumer need not prove the fault was an inherent defect and is entitled to repair replacement or refund. (usually at discretion of seller)

    If the goods are over 6 months than some form of proof that it was an inherent fault with manufacture is required - the OP has this from the upholsterer they contacted.

    So OP has used them for two years. They have a expert to say that they were not made to a proper standard. They are entitled repair, replacement or refund - however as they have had 2 years use, the refund would not necessarily be full value.

    So store is offering 3 "showroom" chairs. - Possibly that is reasonable for the OP, possibly they would prefer for the current chairs to be re-upholstered. The supplier would probably be able to get them reupholstered for under €100 each (trade)

    €250/chair would be middle of road quality in terms of stools - certainly should last more than 2 years, I'd be inclined to accept the three showroom stools if they are in good nick, but that's just my opinion.

    But remember it is IRISH consumer legislation that applies and that is stronger. And its maximum 6 years not minimum.

    Finally, small claims or ANY legal action should always be a last resort after all other avenues are exhausted. A court does not look favourably on those who act in haste.
     
  13. mathepac

    mathepac Frequent Poster

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    My apologies to the OP for typing "minimum" rather than "maximum" but the essential consumer fact is that the retailer, in this case, the kitchen seller, was incorrect in stressing the one year manufacturer's warranty. This is the "out" retailers use to reduce consumer rights and the reason we need this Irish consumers' website.

    @peemac you asked for links to
    . As there is none, I provided links to the relevant Irish legislation and the citizens' information site.

    Use of the small claims court sounds appropriate in this case as there is a massive gulf between the consumer's legal rights and what the retailer is offering. As for the 6-month failure vs. 2 year's use, I'd imagine that's for the court to decide and not the retailer.

    I think a reasonable outcome for OP would be to have the retailer agree to have the stools reupholstered by the expert at the retailer's expense and to supply the shop-soiled stools as temporary replacements. Why? The expert states the stools are badly upholstered, therefore the chances are that any replacement or repair by the manufacturer will have the same manufacturing fault. In fault-finding terms, this is a "day one deviation" and the stools were never going to fulfil their stated purpose. All the costs and logistics of implementing the remedy to be at the retailer's expense. Or go to court and win. As in my OP, IANAL
     
  14. noproblem

    noproblem Frequent Poster

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    The retailer might say he did not manufacture the goods, in fact it was said he was a high end kitchen designer. I've already pointed out the OP tells us they used a designer. They could design anything for anybody, but not be able to manufacture anything.
     
  15. peemac

    peemac Frequent Poster

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    So mathepac, you agree there is no EU legislation and its Irish legislation that applies.
    And you also accept you were wrong stating it was not a minimum of six years.

    Thanks for clarifying.

    Btw, the Op has stated that they have been using the stools for two years, not 12 months as you state.



    The op is still in negotiation with the seller, so taking any form of legal action including scc is premature by a long way.

    The six month timeline on not having to prove inherent fault is within the framework of the legislation too.

    Like every dispute, its about negotiating the best outcome. Only if that fails do you contemplate any legal route.
     
  16. mathepac

    mathepac Frequent Poster

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    They sold the stools to the OP, so designer/manufacturer/assembler/whatever they are classified as, they have a contract with the OP and the obligations that follow on from being the seller to a consumer.
     
  17. mathepac

    mathepac Frequent Poster

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    No, I don't. You asked about new EU legislation and I said there is none, i.e. no new EU legislation. I always said it was Irish legislation that applied. It gives greater protection than EU legislation and the EU legislation allows for national consumer law to take precedence.

    It sounds like negotiation has ended with the seller adopting a polar opposite position to one that might create a middle ground. The SCC is now the arbitrator if the OP chooses to take that path. I'd encourage that course of action but IANAL. All the stars seem to be aligned in the consumer's favour. The inherent fault is established by the expert upholsterer.

    The entire SCC procedure is detailed here -> http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/courts_system/small_claims_court.html
     
  18. peemac

    peemac Frequent Poster

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    @mathepac

    So now you say there is EU legislation?

    A couple of posts up you accepted you were wrong and that it was Irish legislation as I have outlined that applies.

    Can you please please give a link to this EU legislation giving a minimum 6 years? I have never heard of it, there is nothing online from any source, not even consumer sites.

    Here's your own words "Under current consumer legislation, 6 years, supported by Irish case law and EU legislation, is the minimum for consumer goods."

    There is EU legislation giving 2 years but as I have stated, this does NOT apply in Ireland as our own sale of goods act is a far better protection for consumers.

    So please accept that you provided incorrect information and that there is no EU legislation on this matter that is helpful to the op and that it is the stonger Irish legislation that is enforceable.
     
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