Family Home Inheritance - Questions on buying out siblings

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wizabit79

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Hi, my father is currently in a nursing home and my mother has already passed, with the family home lying empty. My two brothers have agreed that myself and my family could move into the home as caretakers and sell my own property with a view to purchasing the family home from them once my father has passed. The house has been valued at €400k to be split equally three ways once our father passes. The nursing home bill (under the fair deal scheme) will also need to be paid from the sale of the house.

I am looking for advice on the future purchase of the house and how it will work in relation to monies to be paid to both brothers. If the house is worth €400k, am I to borrow a mortgage only to cover payment for buyout of my two brothers i.e. 2/3 of price - or how does it work?

I would also welcome any further advice on any taxes that my be incurred during the purchase.

thanks,
 
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Surely your father's will outlines what is to happen?

It is the executor of the will who implements the wishes of the deceased person.
 
I can see a massive family row here.
Was it agreed in advance with the other siblings, who pays the nursing home charges?
I know a family where the father was in a dementia care home for 10 years. There was nothing left for the children.
 
1. Nothing you agree has any standing until the (unwished for) event of your father's demise.
2. The will supersedes anything you might agree between you.
3. Assuming the will leaves the property to the three of you equally, then you just buy the house at the market value then prevailing.
4. Solicitor handling the sale can look after the Fair Deal repayment. So far as that goes it is capped at 3 years.
 
wizabit79 said:
Hi, my father is currently in a nursing home and my mother has already passed, with the family home lying empty. My two brothers have agreed that myself and my family could move into the home as caretakers and sell my own property with a view to purchasing the family home from them once my father has passed.
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As @Protocol says above these are your father's decisions to make not anybody else's.
Unless this is a situation in which an enduring power of attorney or ward of court or assisted decision making applies?

Enduring power of Attorney

Power of attorney is a legal device in Ireland that can be set up by a person (the Donor) to allow another specially appointed person (the Attorney) to act on their behalf. An enduring power of attorney only takes effect when the donor becomes mentally incapacitated and no longer able to...
www.citizensinformation.ie www.citizensinformation.ie

Ward of court

No new wards of court can be created from 26 April 2023. Over the following 3 years, existing wards will be reviewed.
www.citizensinformation.ie www.citizensinformation.ie
 
Unfortunately, no will was ever made and as he has dementia it is too late to make one. One of my brothers has been appointed as the power of attorney and a deed of family arrangement has been drawn up by solicitor to confirm the agreement.
 
fistophobia said:
I can see a massive family row here.
Was it agreed in advance with the other siblings, who pays the nursing home charges?
I know a family where the father was in a dementia care home for 10 years. There was nothing left for the children.
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yes, we are all in agreement that the bill is split evenly 3 ways and it is under the fair deal scheme so capped at 3 years
 
wizabit79 said:
Hi, my father is currently in a nursing home and my mother has already passed, with the family home lying empty. My two brothers have agreed that myself and my family could move into the home as caretakers and sell my own property with a view to purchasing the family home from them once my father has passed. The house has been valued at €400k to be split equally three ways once our father passes. The nursing home bill (under the fair deal scheme) will also need to be paid from the sale of the house.

I am looking for advice on the future purchase of the house and how it will work in relation to monies to be paid to both brothers. If the house is worth €400k, am I to borrow a mortgage only to cover payment for buyout of my two brothers i.e. 2/3 of price - or how does it work? Also, what way does the split for the nursing home bill work?

I would also welcome any further advice on any taxes that my be incurred during the purchase.

thanks,
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Basically, since there isn't a will, its a 3 way split.
The solicitor will have to deduct the fair deal repayment from the value of the home. Then you will have to provide the difference to buy out your siblings.
So basically, if the fair deal is maxed at cap of 10%, the state is entitled to 40k from the sale.
The remaining 90% is shared between you and your two siblings.
All 3 of you need to share the liability for the 10% the state is entitled to, and then you need to purchase the remaining interest of 66% from your 2 siblings.
Normally solicitor just deducts from sale price in a 3rd party sale.
Either all 3 of you pay the 10% owed to bank and discharge that liability or you buy out the state share and payment goes to state while also buying out your 2 siblings. Solicitor will sort this out for you anyway. Good luck!
 
So you will need find €280k

How much will you have after you sell your house?

Then you will need a mortgage for the balance.

Brendan
 
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How was the value of €400k arrived at?

Have you agreed that this will be the price no matter what happens in the meantime?

What happens if prices fall between now and when your father dies?
What happens if prices rise?

You obviously get on well with your two brothers but, even so, it's best to clarify everything now in advance, so that there is no dispute when your father does die.

Will you be spending money on the house immediately? Before spending money, you would want to make sure that it is tied up.

Brendan
 
wizabit79 said:
a deed of family arrangement has been drawn up by solicitor to confirm the agreement.
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Can a Deed of Arrangement be done before the person dies?

Why do you need a Deed of Arrangement. You are not varying your rights under intestacy?

The three of you are agreeing that the house is to be sold to you at market value. Seems straightforward enough.

Brendan
 
fistophobia said:
I can see a massive family row here.
Was it agreed in advance with the other siblings, who pays the nursing home charges?
I know a family where the father was in a dementia care home for 10 years. There was nothing left for the children.
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With Fair Deal, this should not happen!
 
Thanks all for the detailed responses, much appreciated. Yes, the fair deal is 7.5% per year to a max of 3 years so we are all aware of this. The main reason for dead of arrangement is that I am selling my own property while moving into the family home so really want to make sure myself and family are not left homeless should there be a falling out between us brothers. Not that I envisage this, both are older and settled in their own family homes so hopefully all goes off without any issues. I am also carrying out some repair/ refurbishment work in the house before moving in so want to ensure all parties are okay with this (which they are). We had a recent valuation before the fair deal and 400k was the price the house was valued.
 
fistophobia said:
I know a family where the father was in a dementia care home for 10 years.
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So to clarify the only way they would have to pay for 10 years is if the person had not qualified for the Fair Deal scheme in the first place which is not the case here. The scheme is capped at 3 years.

lff12 said:
So basically, if the fair deal is maxed at cap of 10%, the state is entitled to 40k from the sale.
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Bluefin said:
Not sure where this 10% is coming from…max payable is 22.5 % if the person survives more than 3 years in the nursing home which is deducted on the value of the house when the patient was accepted into the scheme…7.5% per annum
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Bluefin said:
Not sure where this 10% is coming from…max payable is 22.5 % if the person survives more than 3 years in the nursing home which is deducted on the value of the house when the patient was accepted into the scheme…7.5% per annum
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Mea culpa I was thinking of the lower 3.75% rate that applies if the person is part of a couple. Still capped at 3 years - but the 7.5% or 3.75% is based on total assets, not just the family home BUT the 3 year cap only applies to family home, farm or proceeds of the sale of the home. Anything else is not subject to the same limit. The limit is 11.25% in the case of one of a couple, and 22.5% if both require it.

More here
 
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