Family car options - 2 cars [city runaround & main car]

[gnf_ireland]

Not sure I am brave enough to post after reading the family SUV thread, but her goes ....

Family of 4, kids at primary school age (1 in JI, other starting next year). Financially relatively comfortable, live in South County Dublin, respective parents in Cork/Galway (3 & 2 hours drive away). Come from a strong 'toyota' family and never had any issues with them.

We have two cars - 04 Yaris petrol (wife's car before we met) and 10 Avensis diesel.
The Yaris is not working for us at the moment. With the 2 child seats in the back, there is simply no room in it for me (I am over 6 foot) or the kids in the back. The boot size is tiny as the back seat is pushed back completely. As a result, it barely does 1500 km per year and rarely leaves a 10km circle from the house. We were originally planning on holding this car until it died, but we feel this is no longer an option.
We have the Avensis for 6 years, and were always planning on replacing it around this window. The Avensis currently does all family driving, as well as my wife's daily commute (~60km per day - mostly M50). In total it does roughly 20,000 km a year, all in.


So we were thinking of upgrading the Yaris to an Auris 1.33 petrol - again look between 152-162, from January time frame when more cars become available. We would look for lowish mileage, and probably hold for 8-10 years as the main city driving car - so use it for the shopping, any after school activities, going to the zoo/beach etc. Anything that involves driving mostly in the city. We would expect the car to do around 5,000-8,000 km a year (roughly). I know the Auris is a 'boring' car, but we would be looking for a decent hold car with reliability being the primary objective, and being able to fit 3 booster seats/cushions in the back. We would also like something that would give us a decent chance of being able to offload in 10 years time, with 100k on the clock, is important and think the resale value of the Toyota is decent. Are there any alternatives here that people think would tick the various boxes?

The other car, we are torn between an SUV & saloon. The current default is an upgraded Avensis model - boring and all as it sounds. I think an cross-over/SUV may be more practical in the primary school years, given the extra space in the back as the kids get older, but are still in booster seats (not cushions). This car would be used mostly for longer/motorway driving and is likely the car would do around 12-15km a year, including M50 commuting (against traffic). We would probably buy a 152-162 car, lowish mileage, and probably aim to hold for around 6-7 years or so. It is likely the car would get 2-3 holidays between UK and Europe in the window as well. We can sacrifice some boot space as buggies no longer a consideration, replaced by 16-20" bikes
Currently favouring RAV4 or Tiguan over the likes of Tuscon,Qasquai or Sportage. I have a concern on the resale value of the latter given the number that has been sold in the last few years. I am not sure I would be willing to fork out for a Q3/Q5/X3 etc. Probably also favouring diesel here, and understand that while the tax situation is likely to change with diesel in the future, given the type of driving we would expect to do, it is still a better option than petrol.
Not convinced on electric or hybrid yet, and fear there are a few big technological jumps to happen in the next few years which will badly impact the resale value of these cars.
Any thoughts or recommendations for the second car? Any alternatives we have not considered that might work for us?

And its worth calling out that aesthetics is not the primary objective, and we would not be speed demons on the road either. We just want a solid comfortable family cars with a good chance of being able to sell on in a number of years time..

 

[lledlledlled]

I would consider a hatchback focus to be better value and better to drive than the Auris. Also, there are loads to choose from in the used market.

Be careful with the choice of primary car. As you have noted, tax on diesels may be due significant increases. There are lots of used Qasquais around now too, if you don't mind the 'soccer mom' image too much. It's easier on your back than lugging kids in and out of a saloon.

There has been a huge number of imports from the UK recently, due to exchange rates and dealer uncertainty with what will happen once brexit arrives. Lots of warnings about clocking etc., but good value to be had if you do the proper checks and are lucky, as with any 'irish' car.

 

[dub_nerd]

Consider Skoda -- has all the equivalent sizes, varieties and engine types as the Toyotas. I (along with most of my family) was a lifelong Toyota driver until a few years ago when I switched. Fabulous reliability and considerably cheaper than a Toyota. Plus, with the kiddies you are already halfway to being a taxi driver ... you might as well make the complete switch.

 

[gnf_ireland]

you might as well make the complete switch

good point - so between a Skoda and Toyota so

 

[gnf_ireland]

I would consider a hatchback focus to be better value and better to drive than the Auris. Also, there are loads to choose from in the used market.

Any idea on the resale value of a focus around 10 years old? I know fords of the past have been not the most reliable, and for this car that is the one thing I am really after - reliability? I also thought fords don't hold their value as well as a toyota as they age. Maybe that is just perception on my part

As you have noted, tax on diesels may be due significant increases.

Agree - would need to do the maths here as well - cost of running versus say an increase up to 750 (say) for tax to align to the pre-2008 models. Would you consider petrol a better bet for longer distance driving than say a hybrid. My view on hybrid is it the technology will improve dramatically over the next few years making the older models less attractive. Again, maybe this is poor judgement on my part

There are lots of used Qasquais around now too, if you don't mind the 'soccer mom' image too much.

Not keen on them for some reason. Think the market is flooded with them (and Tuscon's & Sportage's) and the resale value will seriously suffer as a result. I think in 6-7 years time when I go to sell/trade-in, they will not have held their value at all. Supply/Demand and all of that

It's easier on your back than lugging kids in and out of a saloon.

Good point, although I hope I have done the hard lifting in and out when they were pre-schoolers ! They can get themselves in and out going forward

There has been a huge number of imports from the UK recently, due to exchange rates and dealer uncertainty with what will happen once brexit arrives. Lots of warnings about clocking etc., but good value to be had if you do the proper checks and are lucky, as with any 'irish' car.

Yes, would definitely consider this as an option once I manage to agree on what car we want It would all depend on the value to be had here, versus UK, and if the right car came up here, and was within a tolerance price wise, I would probably buy here. If it was considerably more expensive here, I would definitely consider UK.
Regarding 'clocking', is there any reasonable way to identify this on a UK car? Assume if you stick to main dealers and buy relatively new (<25,000 miles), keeping an eye out for general wear and tear you would be relatively ok. Or would you suggest taking it to another garage for a check before finalising it

 

[Learner2015]

If you have Toyota in your blood I'd stick with the Auris, the Focus / Golf / i30 are other good contenders but if its only purely about function etc why change from what you know for the smaller car, it will hold its value just aswell, be just as reliable and so on.

Re the bigger car I would definitely recommend Skoda, SUVs are nice but in the Tiguan / Qashqi size aren't any bigger than cars. I think a Skoda Octavia or a Superb should be on your short list and definitely go and test one them. I love estates but the hatchbacks have equally massive boots in the Skoda - in fact the Octavia Hatchback car is actually the same length as the Estate version!

 

[gnf_ireland]

Re the bigger car I would definitely recommend Skoda, SUVs are nice but in the Tiguan / Qashqi size aren't any bigger than cars. I think a Skoda Octavia or a Superb should be on your short list and definitely go and test one them.

I think the choice between car (saloon) versus cross-over is not really about size, but more about function and comfort. The Avensis we have for example is probably as long as most SUV's at 1.8 meters. The Qashqai is definitely smaller than it, with a much smaller boot.

I have never driven a cross over for any length of time, but I imagine it is more comfortable on longer journeys. I also imagine there is more space in the back seat for the kids etc. Its likely we will need to visit parents more often over the next while as they get older.

And I know we could easily just upgrade to another saloon whether it be toyota or skoda and be happy with it, but think we should at least look at the cross over market and see if they make more sense to us as a family. Something in my gut (rightly or wrongly) tells me a cross over makes more sense when the kids are in primary school, so if we are to get one now would be the time to do it.


When we go upgrade next time, I might decide to splash out and get a Merc or BMW or something similar Pretend I am hitting my mid-life crises (without the sports car)

 

[Tintagel]

Any views on the Skoda Yeti. They have stopped making these as they introduce a new model of car to replace the Yeti. There are still a few Yeti's about. Should I be looking for a large discount on the price of one of these if buying new?

 

[gnf_ireland]

Any views on the Skoda Yeti. They have stopped making these as they introduce a new model of car to replace the Yeti. There are still a few Yeti's about. Should I be looking for a large discount on the price of one of these if buying new?

Would not look to buy new - would be looking at 152-162 registrations, probably from January when more cars become available
Not 100% sure I would consider buying a crossover that's discontinued - the large discount you mention would also come into play when I wished to get rid of it.

Need to consider resale value if for any reason the car did not work for us and we decided to get rid of it after 18 months !

 

[Leo]

Not 100% sure I would consider buying a crossover that's discontinued - the large discount you mention would also come into play when I wished to get rid of it.

Good point. Better to go for a recent year model that was bought closer to full price and has suffered the worst of its depreciation and now taken a further hit due to the model being discontinued.

 

[Learner2015]

Well if its not about size then yes a crossover can make sense. I would think the Tuscon (best seller) or Seat Ateca would be the only ones I'd consider. My first choice would be a Skoda Karoq but you won't get one of those a couple of years old as they are only just launched.

When I looked at a Tuscon early this year I really was surprised how much space it had, I was expecting Qasqhai space but its bigger inside. What put me off was I think the interior feels cheap compared to any of the VAG stuff like VW / Skoda /Seat which all feel much more up market in my opinion.

 

[gnf_ireland]

@Leo not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but will give it the benefit of doubt

Agree re Skoda - also not sure if the 5 seater is out yet or just the 7 seater model. If I decide I really like it, I can always postpone for another 12 months or so.

Interesting comments re Tucson and feeling cheap. Guess I need to go have a look and see a few.

Does anyone have concerns on resaleability of Qasquai/Tucson relative to other brands say in 6 years time given they are the best sellers at the moment? Any fear the market would be flooded resulting in a significant price drop?

Obviously worth keeping in mind I am looking at 15 and 16 models rather than 17 or 18. Not sure if that makes a difference, especially in the case of the Ateca.

Thanks for the comments. I will have a look/drive of a few and let you know how I get on and my thoughts.

 

[Learner2015]

The 7 seater Kodiaq was launched earlier this year but the 5 Seater Karoq is going to be launched immanently. To confuse matters you can order a Kodiaq as a 5 seater but that would be resale suicide!

Re resale values the new best sellers seem to retain their value better even if that ment there was loads more second hand to buy as there was so many more people who wanted to buy them.

Anyway best of luck in whatever you go with and do let us know!

 

[newirishman]

Given you are doing very low mileage on the Yaris would you consider ditching the 2nd car completely?
It always strikes me as a bit of a luxury two have 2 cars when living in the city, and they aren't both required all the time for commuting or similar.

 

[AlbacoreA]

Given you are doing very low mileage on the Yaris would you consider ditching the 2nd car completely?
It always strikes me as a bit of a luxury two have 2 cars when living in the city, and they aren't both required all the time for commuting or similar.

Depends what you are doing. Our 2nd car mainly gets used at the weekend and evenings. Not for commuting at all.

 

[Leo]

@Leo not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but will give it the benefit of doubt

No, I was being serious. A 2-3 year old car will already have experienced its most significant level of depreciation. If on top of that the model is discontinued, that will usually further devalue second hand examples as they will be perceived less favourably (out of date, more difficult to source spares, etc.)

 

[gnf_ireland]

Given you are doing very low mileage on the Yaris would you consider ditching the 2nd car completely? It always strikes me as a bit of a luxury two have 2 cars when living in the city, and they aren't both required all the time for commuting or similar.

In theory we could ditch the second car, but it would leave us pretty exposed at times. I use public transport to commute 85% of the time, but occasionally have to go to other locations requiring a car. One car would always be required for one of the commutes, and being without access to a car for whatever reason is not ideal- especially when it is not a cost consideration.

The problem by enlarge with Dublin public transport is it is radial in nature, so going against that can be very time consuming.

BTW I spent 12 odd years without having a car when abroad and never missed it. Dublin is different though, and really does not have an adequate public transport system, unless you want to go to the city centre.

 

[gnf_ireland]

No, I was being serious.

that's fine - always good to check. The thought process is aligned to my own in that case

 

[newtothis]

In theory we could ditch the second car, but it would leave us pretty exposed at times. I use public transport to commute 85% of the time, but occasionally have to go to other locations requiring a car. One car would always be required for one of the commutes, and being without access to a car for whatever reason is not ideal- especially when it is not a cost consideration.

The problem by enlarge with Dublin public transport is it is radial in nature, so going against that can be very time consuming.

BTW I spent 12 odd years without having a car when abroad and never missed it. Dublin is different though, and really does not have an adequate public transport system, unless you want to go to the city centre.

My thinking would have been pretty much exactly that until a few years ago, when we had to sell our second car due to financial necessity. I thought we'd struggle, as our children were still fairly young (two working adults plus a private taxi service all with one car????!!!!). After a couple of years, I looked back and was amazed: I'd say there were about three occasions over that time where it had been a problem not to have the second car, and there was always a way round it. Having said that, we are on two high-frequency bus routes and are next to the Luas which helps, but public transport really has improved greatly over the past 10 years or so. We're not quite London or New York where you'd be mad to have a car, but we've moved quite a bit from Los Angeles, where you'd be mad not to have one.

My point is it might well be OK to just have one car, despite what you now think. Why not sell the smaller one to see how you get on for a while, and then change the larger one? Regardless of what you get, buying and running a car is a huge expense to take on if you don't need to.

 

[gnf_ireland]

Having said that, we are on two high-frequency bus routes and are next to the Luas which helps, but public transport really has improved greatly over the past 10 years or so.

I think this is key - immediate access you have to public transport. While it works fine for me - we are 1.2 km from both the DART or QBC and happy to walk the distance in the morning/evening, dragging a 5.5 and nearly 4 year old can make this a very slow and unmanageable process. And as I said, this works fine if we want to go to town, but going to say Sandyford from Blackrock would take an age via public transport.

If I had to get to Citywest for work (like I occasionally do) after school drop-off (8:35), the only option is in to town and out again, I would be lucky to make it in for 10am - driving I could be there for close to 9:15 (depending on M50 chaos).

My thinking would have been pretty much exactly that until a few years ago, when we had to sell our second car due to financial necessity. I thought we'd struggle, as our children were still fairly young (two working adults plus a private taxi service all with one car????!!!!). After a couple of years, I looked back and was amazed: I'd say there were about three occasions over that time where it had been a problem not to have the second car, and there was always a way round it.

And being honest, if financial issues were a concern, we would probably downgrade to 1 car and live with the consequence, or keep the 04 Yaris, which does not exactly cost us too much to run. Insurance is pretty cheap, as is tax, pay for the NCT each year (passes without issue) and the small amount of mileage we do on it does not rack up a massive fuel bill.

 

[amtc]

My mileage is teeny. My 07d car has 14k on it. But I was working in Sandyford for a while...and first day bus and Luas took 2 1/2 hours. After that m50 and 22 minutes...

Amongst my friends I've really noticed the difference a third child makes. My friend has three under three and he's constantly on the road. He has a van thingie and was recalling the days if his youthful sports car recently...