Hi - I have reviewed the HSE website and got some very good general information on the Fair Deal scheme
About the Fair Deal scheme
Fair Deal provides financial support for those in long-term nursing home care. You pay part of the nursing home fees and we pay the balance. Read more at HSE.iewww2.hse.ie
I have a few more detailed questions and was wondering if anyone can answer them;
1. If a person has assets beyond his own home then as I understand it the Fair Deal scheme will take 80% of his income (pension mostly) PLUS 7.5% per year of any other assets. Is that right?
2. If a person has some investment assets beyond his own home will they insist on taking the 7.5% from the investments first before impacting the person's home or can the person opt to take the Nursing home loan which means the cost of nursing home will be paid on the death of the person and the subsequent sale of their home. In other words if a person wants to protect their investments and have the nursing home paid from the proceeds of their home when they die can they do that?
3. The information on HSE site states that in considering a financial assessment of an applicant "The assessment will also look at any assets that you have transferred in the last 5 years" What does this actually mean? If a person has transferred money to a son in the last 5 years will the HSE hold the son liable for the cost of their parent's care if the existing assets run out? Do they really pursue this?
4. On the HSE website there is a list of nursing homes by county with prices. Are the prices quoted the actual cost of the care or would that amount need to be topped up ? If so by approx how much (% wise). I am trying to work out how much per annum the real cost will be. As an example if the cost per week is €1,000, then that will be €52,000 per annum which will be made up of 80% of pension say 10k with the remaining 42k needing to come from the person's other assets. Is that right?
5 Is the type of care delivered in these listed nursing homes the same whether the person has the means to pay the full 52k or not?
6. If a person has no assets other than their home and its worth say 200k then that would cover about 4 yrs in a nursing home. What happens beyond that?
Many thanks BrianB - this is very helpful!
Just one point of clarification; in your response you say;
"There is no link between the cost of the home and the cost of care to the applicant if they use the Fair Deal Scheme. So regardless of cost, the FDS will establish all the assets and income, and charge the applicant 7.5% of value of the assets, and 80% of the income every year. After 3 years, the 7.5% of the family house bit no longer applies"
Does this mean that if the published cost of care is 52k and if the person has assets 1,000,000 and income of 16k they would pay 75k plus 80% of 16k = 88k. Or would they pay the 52K?
I'm pretty sure this is not right and they would not be worse off. They simply pay the 52k.From my understanding of it, they would pay €88k per year.
I'm pretty sure this is not right and they would not be worse off. They simply pay the 52k.
BUT: It's been a while since I applied and there's been a few changes since.
I'm pretty sure this is not right and they would not be worse off. They simply pay the 52k.
BUT: It's been a while since I applied and there's been a few changes since.
There are safeguards built in to the Financial Assessment which ensure that:
- Nobody will pay more than the actual cost of care
I think it’ very important to point out;They recalculate it yearly though.
From my understanding of it, they would pay €88k per year. The FDS doesn't suit everyone - if you have a lot of assets like this example, you come off worse financially.
If I'm understanding this correctly, is it the case that the worse off you are, the more you benefit? i.e. the less you have to lose?
If so, I guess that means that the wealthier you are, the more you pay for your care, which is as it should be, I suppose.
Presumably, it also means that the Fair Deal scheme is also open to those who have little or nothing.
Thanks.
D.
I'll be happy to be wrong (I've plenty of practice). Something on the FDS web page that backs your statement up is:
"Your contribution towards the cost of your care will be worked out after a financial assessment. The HSE then pays the balance between what you pay for your care and what the nursing home charges for providing that care."
...BUT, I see no explicit mention of a cap, and that sentence could be viewed as living some room for ambiguity, and further in to the HSE web site on it, they then say:
This is completely wrong - terrible misinformation for the OP!!!. What rubbish, tin hat brigade.
As mentioned, the Fair deal is a subsidy - you DONT need to apply for it.. in fact the State would be alot happier if you didnt!!., so if your worried, simply dont apply, and enter into a private contract with the nursing home. JOB DONE!.
If your assessed weekly means are greater than the homes weekly fee, then you pay the weekly charge direct to the Nursing home without any Top up from the HSE - you are a private patient, you sign a private contract between you and the nursing home. If you dont pay up, you will owe this money and your nursing home contract will be revoked, and your relative discharged..
If your calculated weekly means is less than the weekly fee charged by the home, then you may be entitled for Top Up. Be aware that the NHSS scheme money budgetted can run out as one gets closer to year end. So, even if you are entitled, at time of application, if the kitty is dry then tough s*ite paddy, wait till funding is renewed at start of next budget cycle.
Once you are approved and receive a confirmation that there is funding , you are covered from then on. You should apply yearly for a reassessment to as your savings will be diminished by 7.5% p.a.
Even with cover, its a Top up from HSE. You still have a contract - a standing order form will need to be signed to have monies debited from your relatives current account, to the Home, and you must not spend the relatives savings on anything except what is required for their care. e.g. hair dressers, clothes, health insurance etc. keep receipts. The re-assessment after year 1 will assume this scenario, any other spending is not allowed in their calculations, so you will need to be careful with the savings.
For example, we pay 4375 per month direct & HSE Top up is 205 euro p/w to the home.
Wow, nursing home costs are not small change. With all this talk about the oncoming grey brigade getting larger and larger I hope people are taking all this in because the day of a son or daughter, etc, minding us is gone. (in most cases) Older people need to sit down, look at their assets, sort out wills, and do lots of calculations so as to be able to avail of funding, talk to family and be ready for getting older and not being able to manage themselves.
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