Fair Deal Help

J

JoplinOne

Registered User
Messages
20
Hi, hoping to get some help on the above.

My mother is relatively young, 71, and has been diagnosed with dementia. I'm her only child, my father is dead. I have a young family and I can't move in with her to care for her, as this form of dementia affects the frontal lobe and causes delusions and the changes of increasingly violent outbursts. I am coming to the point where I am looking at a possible home.

She has savings of 60k, a pension of 200k, which is wrapped up in investments that I am not sure how it works, some money seems to be released every six months, up to 6k in total a year into her account. She did it in a way that one of the pensions will be inherited by me. I have no idea what happens if Fair Deal happens. I have thought about changing it so that she will get a fixed income from it and can put it into her care, waiving any inheritance from it.

She is on a state pension, and her house is worth around 300k.

My question is if she has to go into a home would her current money: pension and savings cover it? I am hoping to try and get a carer for her at home before the inevitable nursing home care comes into place. Is there tax recoverable on that?

What happens to her home if she has to move into a home?
 
JoplinOne said:
My question is if she has to go into a home would her current money: pension and savings cover it? I am hoping to try and get a carer for her at home before the inevitable nursing home care comes into place. Is there tax recoverable on that?

What happens to her home if she has to move into a home?
Click to expand...

Yes, Fair Deal is available to all regardless of what income or assets they have. Everyone pays 80% of their income, plus 7.5% of the value of their home (If they have one, this is capped at 3 years and can be deferred until after death) plus 7.5% of any other assets they might have.

How they treat your Mothers ‘’Pension of €200K which is wrapped up in investments’’ depends on what exactly it is. If it is something that can be cashed in, it will probably be treated as an asset. Either way your Mother would benefit greatly.

Fair Deal is explained in detail here:

http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/4/olderpeople/nhss/

Tax relief is available on the cost of home care.

Can we claim tax relief on the cost of home care?

Yes you can. Our clients or their family can avail of income tax relief of up to 40% on payments to Home Instead Senior Care of up to €75,000 per annum…………………………………

http://www.homeinstead.ie/faqs

You should contact your Mothers local Public Health Nurse, who can, if needed arrange most of the cost of up to I think 21 hours home care weekly, there are usually waiting lists for this, even if you only get a few hours a week to start, once in it’s easier to get hours increased as your Mothers needs increase, you can also pay additional hours privately.

Your Mother’s home will likely remain empty if she moves to a nursing home under Fair Deal as all of the rent would be treated as income and as such 80% would go towards the cost of her care. Far cheaper and much less of a headache to leave it empty like thousands of others, my family members included.

If your Mother sells the house she will be assessed on the proceeds indefinitely.
 
You should definitely speak to your public nurse in the first instance and also your hospital or doctor may be able to provide you with the contact details for the home care coordinator. Be aware that it is difficult to get a state supported home care package and even if you do get it, it may be no more then someone dropping in for 30 minutes a day until your mother's condition worsens. The public nurse will carry out an assessment and you need to paint the situation as black as possible

Also ask the nurse who are the local carers who could be assigned and who would they recommend. it might be an idea to see if you can contact them and see if they will do extra hours and get paid by you or your mother
 
Thanks a million for getting back to me twofor1 and thedaddyman.

The pension, as far as I know, is on an investment scheme and she gets about 6k at the moment a year, however there is an option to change it into a pension that will give her a fixed income for twenty years of around 10K.

I would be waiving my inheritance on that but as long as she was able to get more care out of it, then I would be happy. However, her prognosis is sadly around 5 years max, but I am thinking that you never know and she could live longer and then it would be a major help. She wants to stay in her home so I think we will look at Home care for the time being; she has HSE carers at the moment. That is good news about the tax relief.

In relation to the house, so we could never move into it if she went into a home? It seems wasteful, as I know she would want my children to have use of it if they needed to. But if it is way too much hassle then we would leave it empty. My wife's family stayed in their grandmother's house down the country when she went into a home, but it was only when they were over visiting her in the home (they lived abroad and in Dublin).
 
We have HSE care, 1.5 hours a day, but all they really do is give her medication. She needs more care and meals cooked, perhaps overnight care soon. I have looked at the idea of an aupair type carer. Do many people do this?
 
JoplinOne said:
We have HSE care, 1.5 hours a day, but all they really do is give her medication. She needs more care and meals cooked, perhaps overnight care soon. I have looked at the idea of an aupair type carer. Do many people do this?
Click to expand...

Is there any meals on wheels or something similar in the area? There are also private care companies you can engage but I've heard mixed views on those from people who've hired them
 
I have heard bad things about meals on wheels, what I was doing is buying meals and she was able to heat them up and was enjoying them, but I think she got bored with them and if I could have someone there to cook each evening, I have to broach that with the HSE carer. We don't live near her, but are there on the weekends during the day.

I would worry about an Aupair type carer as I would be afraid that they wouldn't have the expertise to deal with this type of dementia, as she can hallucinate and think people are in the house. There seems to be a problem with medication all the time, stabilising her, getting the right balance. Essentially, the doctors have not told me if she has worsened. Sometimes she will be back to normal almost, other times she can seem like she's lost her mind completely. Such an insidious disease.
 
JoplinOne said:
In relation to the house, so we could never move into it if she went into a home?
Click to expand...

If your Mother rented her home while in under Fair Deal then she would have to declare the income.

If a family member was minding the house for her and were not paying rent, then the house is not rented and there is no income for your Mother to declare.

I would guess there are many such arrangements with Fair Deal houses, whether these arrangements throw up any other issues, I don’t know.
 
JoplinOne said:
I have looked at the idea of an aupair type carer. Do many people do this?
Click to expand...

It can be done but throws up many problems. I know a few who tried it, never with any great success, long term anyway.

Carers will want specified days, nights, weekends off etc, who will cover these ?

What happens when the carer is sick, or on holidays ?

What if the carer doesn’t get on with your mother ?

Would you be competent interviewing and vetting potential applicants ?

Your Mother is very vulnerable, how could you be sure she gets the care she needs ?

You would have to do job contracts and all that’s associated with PAYE, PRSI etc.

If the carer decides to leave for any reason, it’s back to square one again.

Just a few issues, I’m sure there are many more.
 
I never knew how complicated it could be. It will require a lot of research.

We could cover one or two nights a week probably between my wife and I, but it would be very difficult with small children, etc.

Thanks for all your input, it's much appreciated. I am due to go and see the doctors now to talk about it properly.
 
Meals on wheels is largely voluntary, have to say it works fine where my Mam lives. It's unlikely the HSE will provide cooking etc, it more around making sure a person is up, dressed, taking their medication etc.
 
@thedaddyman okay thanks, it's an option.

@twofor1 I would not want to rent out the house for definite while she is still alive, it would seem weird to do that (not judging others). But if we were to get her into a home on that side of the city, we may have to stay there the odd night, also to do work on the house.
 
My dad's home help will cook for breakfast for him every day but won't help with medication, apparently they aren't allowed they say! So it seems rules are different everywhere. The only help we were looking for on a medication front recently was to put in eye drops after an op, they had to be done several times a day and he was useless at doing it himself so it would have helped if they could have done it in the morning.
 
We used one of the bigger private home care companies with the HSE contributing most of the cost. Most of the carers were brilliant, they would cook, iron, light house work, go to the shops, whatever.

Meds were done in blister packs for different times of each day by the chemist. The carers were not allowed give medication but they could prompt, as in Paddy have you taken your morning tablets, once Paddy took the tablets the carer would note it in the daily log that Paddy took his morning tablets, same procedure for afternoon and evening. If there was any issue a family member would be notified.
 
Also, I have found her pension details. There is:

64k in a AMRF
and 188k in an ARF

Does Fair Deal take these funds?
 
JoplinOne said:
@twofor1 Do you mind me asking how the HSE contributed most of the cost, was it based on income and assets?
Click to expand...

This was for a Home Care Package, I don't recall it been means tested. At that stage the family member could manage at home with help, we could look after the weekends no problem, but not always mid week, the PHN did her assessment and we were approved for one hour in the morning, afternoon and evening Monday to Friday, so 15 hours a week.

The HSE pay I think €23 per hour, the private care company charge I think around €25 per hour. We just had to pay the additional €2 per hour for 15 hours weekly and pay in full if there were any additional hours.

It meant that some one was definitely there morning afternoon and evening to ensure the client was fed, medicated and very importantly to ensure they drank, very often the elderly forget to drink and become dehydrated, which can have serious consequences.
 
JoplinOne said:
Also, I have found her pension details. There is:

64k in a AMRF
and 188k in an ARF

Does Fair Deal take these funds?
Click to expand...

Maybe someone else can explain exactly what AMRF's and ARF's are.

It’s not a question of do they take them,

If they can be cashed in I think they will be assessed at 7.5% as they would be an asset.

If it’s a pension from which she gets an annual income, then she will be assessed on 80% of the annual income.

Either way your Mother will benefit from Fair Deal.

If you ring your local Nursing Homes Support office, they should be able to clarify.
 
I employ an au pair for my elderly mother who lives alone. With a few issues, this has worked well for 4 years. However, my mother whilst she can get confused doesnt have the hallunciations etc and is in general easy to manage. I dont think you would find an au pair that would take on the role. I find its very important that you provide them with good working conditions and that they have a genuine oppurtunity to improve language/ learn about Irish culture/travel etc. and it sounds like this wouldnt be the case in your situation.

There are private companies, bluebird, home instead etc that you could use and you can reclaim some tax but they are expensive.

My mother goes to a very good local day care centre 2 days a week. They collect from home in the morning by bus and return her in the evening. They have many dementia patients. Ask your PHN they might have a suggestion for one?

As an only child also I fully sympthaise with you and the tough decisons you need to make.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top