Extension and renovation costs

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Browneyedgirl4

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In this climate is 150k a reasonable estimate for a 30sq m Kitchen/dining extension/new kitchen replumb/rewire/dry lining/New wooden flooring/new heat pump system to bring the rest of the house to a B3 rating.? Is it preferable to wait a year or two until prices stabilise. ? What if you start a project prices escalate and you have to increase your budget considerably...
 
I was actually quoted 200k not including appliances .....crazy at the moment to think that it Would cost that much ...if no one can afford to pay those prices then people will wait it out until there is a recession and I think I’ll join them...
 
Introuble83 said:
Cheaper to move to a larger house probably
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I've come to this conclusion myself. The market is so dislocated that (a) getting a builder and (b) paying less than the cost of actually building a house seems close to impossible.
Just quoted 306k for a 38 sq/m extension plus a deep retrofit of a 140 sq/m house. Ex VAT! Insane.

I'm now perversely incentivized to leave the country or else hope for economic collapse.
 
Truffade said:
I've come to this conclusion myself. The market is so dislocated that (a) getting a builder and (b) paying less than the cost of actually building a house seems close to impossible.
Just quoted 306k for a 38 sq/m extension plus a deep retrofit of a 140 sq/m house. Ex VAT! Insane.

I'm now perversely incentivized to leave the country or else hope for economic collapse.
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Crazy stuff altogether
 
So glad I did the extension I had wanted for years late 2020 into early 2021, was held up with early 2021 lockdown but finished now. Now it wasn't big, extra 5x2 metres, basically back wall of kitchen gone and pushed out to open up room, 2 velux, 1 ordinary window and one floor length angled window looking out at my garden that I love! Building cost 22k, new kitchen for full new room which is now 5mx5m, 10k which was 7k for kitchen, 1600 flooring and appliances made up balance. I did the new island myself from rejigging old penninsula unit and making a second leg for it, countertop cost 1200 for that but rest was only a few hundred on mdf and paint.

With the way things have gone I think I got great value and it has made a huge difference to the house, I have sympathy for anyone trying to find a builder/tradesman/funds these days to finance the cost of building!
 
306k for extension and deep retrofit of a 178sqm comes in at 1.7k per sqm. Do you happen to have a quote for just the extensions and not the additional works on enhancing the current house?

I am currently getting initial quotes for converting a garage a small extension on the kitchen (~10sqm) and what I am noticing is that retrofit works really increase the cost. External Wrap, new windows, doors, insulation, concrete floor, heating systems can quickly rise to 100k.

I am trying to set a budget for the basics of the construction and getting to a builders finish, which I hope will come in at 100k and then will flex on finishes. This is where the variation can come in for example, laminate could be 3k supplied and fitted, versus 10-15k for wood.

I am also expecting that 10-13% to be on professional fees (QS / Architect etc).

I think for most people now, we need to look at splitting the work into stages.
 
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Dublinbay12 said:
306k for extension and deep retrofit of a 178sqm comes in at 1.7k per sqm. Do you happen to have a quote for just the extensions and not the additional works on enhancing the current house?
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he didn't specify although I can make some uneducated guesses. Here's the high-level breakdown, ex-VAT:
DescriptionSub Total
PRELIMINARY17,720
DEMOLITION AND ALTERATIONS19,677
EXCAVATION AND EARTHWORKS4,555
FOUNDATIONS20,914
EXTERNAL WALL STRUCTURE6,664
INTERNAL WALL STRUCTURE6,256
STAIR STRUCTURE515
ROOF STRUCTURE12,325
STRUCTURAL FRAME3,351
EXTERNAL WALL COMPLETIONS30,074
INTERNAL WALL COMPLETIONS9,029
ROOF COMPLETIONS9,400
EXTERNAL WALL FINISHES8,233
INTERNAL WALL FINISHES24,314
FLOOR FINISHES10,122
CEILING FINISHES11,352
ROOF FINISHES12,787
DECORATIONS8,535
MECHANICAL29,130
ELECTRICAL22,423
FITTINGS, FURNITURE & EQUIPMENT26,480
EXTERIOR WORKS13,948

Dublinbay12 said:
I think for most people now, we need to look at splitting the work into stages.
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You still run into the same problems though - cost, availability of professionals etc. And you can quite easily mess up the sequence that the work should logically be done in, as we don't tend to think logically about our own homes.
I am actually trying to use the info we've got (and I expect these prices to be confirmed by a second builder) to frame a list of possible options e.g.
  1. do nothing (and hope the market auto-corrects over time, this probably means a crash :confused:)
  2. sell and move to a house that is 'finished' (hard to find, very expensive)
  3. do a few things bit by bit
 
Truffade said:
he didn't specify although I can make some uneducated guesses. Here's the high-level breakdown, ex-VAT:
DescriptionSub Total
PRELIMINARY17,720
DEMOLITION AND ALTERATIONS19,677
EXCAVATION AND EARTHWORKS4,555
FOUNDATIONS20,914
EXTERNAL WALL STRUCTURE6,664
INTERNAL WALL STRUCTURE6,256
STAIR STRUCTURE515
ROOF STRUCTURE12,325
STRUCTURAL FRAME3,351
EXTERNAL WALL COMPLETIONS30,074
INTERNAL WALL COMPLETIONS9,029
ROOF COMPLETIONS9,400
EXTERNAL WALL FINISHES8,233
INTERNAL WALL FINISHES24,314
FLOOR FINISHES10,122
CEILING FINISHES11,352
ROOF FINISHES12,787
DECORATIONS8,535
MECHANICAL29,130
ELECTRICAL22,423
FITTINGS, FURNITURE & EQUIPMENT26,480
EXTERIOR WORKS13,948


You still run into the same problems though - cost, availability of professionals etc. And you can quite easily mess up the sequence that the work should logically be done in, as we don't tend to think logically about our own homes.
I am actually trying to use the info we've got (and I expect these prices to be confirmed by a second builder) to frame a list of possible options e.g.
  1. do nothing (and hope the market auto-corrects over time, this probably means a crash :confused:)
  2. sell and move to a house that is 'finished' (hard to find, very expensive)
  3. do a few things bit by bit
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That is incredibly helpful so thank you! I have certainly noticed that houses that are 'finished' are going for a premium at the minute and although are 'finished' won't be exactly to the purchasers requirement.

I noticed you don't have architects / QS costings in that, are you working with one? Are you massively changing the layout of the existing house? I did recently see some example of architects reviewing plans and suggesting alterations to reduce costs but deliver the same benefit.

I think the price will correct to an extent without a crash as the global supply chain gets back on track, but probably not substantially enough to offset the increase of labour costs that will continue to rise.
 
Looking at an episode of Escape to the Country on BBC last week. A couple were quoted around £350k to have a fine house built in Wales. Site was about £150k extra on top of that. Prices are crazy here.
 
Dublinbay12 said:
That is incredibly helpful so thank you! I have certainly noticed that houses that are 'finished' are going for a premium at the minute and although are 'finished' won't be exactly to the purchasers requirement.
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For me I think it's key i.e. the question of how much that premium is.

My gut feel is that in my area (nice part of Dublin, coastal) it's about 200k.
I could sell my house for 800k and looking at the property register, I could buy a similar house that's 'finished' for about 950k/1000k. Which sounds mad on the face of it but would actually save me a lot of money and heartache. I have ~70% equity and ~200k cash so would be very do-able, if I could find the right property...

Dublinbay12 said:
I noticed you don't have architects / QS costings in that, are you working with one? Are you massively changing the layout of the existing house? I did recently see some example of architects reviewing plans and suggesting alterations to reduce costs but deliver the same benefit.
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I have a full Bill of Quantities, as costed by the buildersQS, but wasn't going to post that in here. Those are just the sub-totals for each part of that BoQ.
The builder is working off detailed plans supplied by us, via an architect. The only professional we haven't had in yet is an engineer.

Dublinbay12 said:
I think the price will correct to an extent without a crash as the global supply chain gets back on track, but probably not substantially enough to offset the increase of labour costs that will continue to rise.
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Absent a wider economic crash, I agree. It's definitely a time to avoid the building market if you can.
 
Truffade said:
For me I think it's key i.e. the question of how much that premium is.

My gut feel is that in my area (nice part of Dublin, coastal) it's about 200k.
I could sell my house for 800k and looking at the property register, I could buy a similar house that's 'finished' for about 950k/1000k. Which sounds mad on the face of it but would actually save me a lot of money and heartache. I have ~70% equity and ~200k cash so would be very do-able, if I could find the right property...


I have a full Bill of Quantities, as costed by the buildersQS, but wasn't going to post that in here. Those are just the sub-totals for each part of that BoQ.
The builder is working off detailed plans supplied by us, via an architect. The only professional we haven't had in yet is an engineer.


Absent a wider economic crash, I agree. It's definitely a time to avoid the building market if you can.
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You're a bit further along than me but we are in the similar areas with a similar property. My house might get 850k in current market and If I spent 200k I doubt I would get 1050k. There's definitely always a sunk cost and those finished houses are likely selling for less than the cost of works, but probably not by much in today's market.

Out of interest, what were you expecting the tenders to come in at? I'm assuming you paid a couple k in architect fees and maybe needed planning permission. Sounds like you weren't expecting it to be this much?
 
Dublinbay12 said:
You're a bit further along than me but we are in the similar areas with a similar property. My house might get 850k in current market and If I spent 200k I doubt I would get 1050k. There's definitely always a sunk cost and those finished houses are likely selling for less than the cost of works, but probably not by much in today's market.
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Yes, I think my 200k figure is reasonably accurate. I did test it out with the estate agent who lives a few doors up!
Dublinbay12 said:
Out of interest, what were you expecting the tenders to come in at? I'm assuming you paid a couple k in architect fees and maybe needed planning permission. Sounds like you weren't expecting it to be this much?
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Yes, paid a few k to our architect and also 1k to an energy consultant.
I was expecting 250-275k. I did ask someone knowledgable to run the numbers for me and that's what they came up with.
 
Truffade said:
Yes, I think my 200k figure is reasonably accurate. I did test it out with the estate agent who lives a few doors up!

Yes, paid a few k to our architect and also 1k to an energy consultant.
I was expecting 250-275k. I did ask someone knowledgable to run the numbers for me and that's what they came up with.
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I guess it just comes down to is the extra 30-50k above your expectations worth it Vs the hassle of moving! I like me neighbours and the house so I'm leaning towards paying the extra.

My view generally is that everybody wants to extend and do energy upgrades. The people who buy your house or mine will want to do the same and due to the cost they may seek a discount on the asking!

I hope it works out for you.
 
What about those ‘wonderful‘ seai grants which should in reality be worth 25k/30k when retrofitting but what’s to stop the builder increasing his quote and you don’t benefit from the grants then.....I know there is a one stop shop scheme but you have to use one of their contractors in addition to your own builder and them it gets messy when there’s an issue down the Line......Government didn’t think it through and this is also fueling demand for retrofitting In a market with limited supplies/labour....
 
Browneyedgirl4 said:
What about those ‘wonderful‘ seai grants which should in reality be worth 25k/30k when retrofitting but what’s to stop the builder increasing his quote and you don’t benefit from the grants then.....I know there is a one stop shop scheme but you have to use one of their contractors in addition to your own builder and them it gets messy when there’s an issue down the Line......Government didn’t think it through and this is also fueling demand for retrofitting In a market with limited supplies/labour....
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Do you think every builder in the country is increasing their quotes? And every builder in NI too?
 
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