Expenses against rental income

Discussion in 'Property investment and tenants' rights' started by trident, 3 Jan 2019.

  1. Bronte

    Bronte Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    13,016
    I agree that positive experiences don't get posted.

    But as regards the RTB, why would a landlord use them?
     
  2. Leo

    Leo Moderator

    Posts:
    9,557
    If so many tenants weren't paying rent, why wouldn't they as a first step?
     
  3. NoRegretsCoyote

    NoRegretsCoyote Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    244
    I am actually a somewhat accidental landlord at the better end of the market. I do very careful searches on my tenants such as references with callbacks to previous landlords. I also look for employee reference letters and payslips, and check that this tallies with what is on linkedin. I also do facebook searches - you would be suprised at what people leave visible publicly. I do inspections three times a year. I try to respond to their concerns and get things fixed by professionals.

    This doesn't eliminate risk but it can mitigate it to a certain extent.


    Landlording is of course a risky activity, but that's one of the reasons it has a good return. Gross yields on apartments outside Dublin are approaching double digits - what other asset class would give you that these days?
     
  4. cremeegg

    cremeegg Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    2,674
    While I agree with the rest of Gordons post, I would suggest that any landlord stay far way from anyone you know. Any issue becomes personal grief.
     
    PaxmanK likes this.
  5. PaxmanK

    PaxmanK Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    130
    They are. Look it up at the rtb.
    And that's just the ones who could be bothered with the rtb.
     
  6. Leo

    Leo Moderator

    Posts:
    9,557
    The number of cases is a lot smaller than your dire warnings would suggest to be the case.

    A total of 1,674 disputes dealt with last year, less than 40% of those initiated by landlords. There are more than 300k registered tenancies and more than 174k registered landlords. If the situation was as bleak as you describe, surely more than 0.2% of tenancies would be give rise to complaints, or are you suggesting there are thousands of landlords who are failing to collect rent yet couldn't be bothered filling out a simple form?
     
    NoRegretsCoyote likes this.
  7. PaxmanK

    PaxmanK Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    130

    You are obviously not aware that most landlords do t actually use the rtb as it is so biased . You can read about that too all over fora.

    Wait until reports about 6 months down the line and you will see the amount of rentals has plummeted.
     
  8. Leo

    Leo Moderator

    Posts:
    9,557
    So you believe the vast majority of landlords just sit by while their tenants refuse to pay rent? Any of them that use the RTB for overholding and can manage the basics of issuing a valid termination order seem the get the cases determined in their favour.

    Again, you seem to be getting caught out by a small number of disgruntled landlords posting on one forum as being an accurate representation of what is happening in the real world. I don't think there's a single forum anywhere on the internet with a balance that reflects the real world. You show me one with a few landlords complaining about their plight and I'll show you another that suggests all landlords are evil and should be among the first put to the sword when the revolution comes. Of course neither extreme comes anywhere close to representing reality.

    That's really no surprise with a large shortfall in private housing supply, a rising population, and property values arriving at a point where many reluctant landlords can exit the market. If it really were as bad as you were suggesting, we'd see a drop of multiple times what is happening.
     
  9. Dermot

    Dermot Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    1,028
    Why in most cases would a landlord take a case of non payment of rent to the RTB when after all the hassle of getting it into the RTB system and winning it the Landlord will very rarely ever get any payment. I know of quite a number of small landlords who were happy to see the back of tenants like that and getting their property back and hopefully with better tenants. On the other hand there are a small number of tenants who will see landlords as a good "mark" to see what they can extract out of them. Rtb has yet to earn the confidence of landlords
     
    Saavy99 likes this.
  10. Gordon Gekko

    Gordon Gekko Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    3,400
    I’m ashamed to say that it warms the cockles of my heart when I hear stories of rogue tenants being run out of properties by people who take matters into their own hands.

    A personal favourite of mine is a tale of someone who managed to get four tenants fired from their jobs for acting the maggot...magnificent stuff.
     
  11. NoRegretsCoyote

    NoRegretsCoyote Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    244
    If you take a rogue tenant to the RTB you are carrying out a public good as judgements are on a publicly searchable database and can be checked by future landlords.
     
  12. JoeRoberts

    JoeRoberts Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    483
    Get a solicitor to draw up the document.
    Ideally a parent that already owns a property should provide it so that it can be enforced ( even against the estate down the line). Just the concept itself should be enough to keep tenants in line.
    Very common in France.
     
  13. NoRegretsCoyote

    NoRegretsCoyote Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    244
    Are these legally enforceable in Ireland?
     
  14. Leo

    Leo Moderator

    Posts:
    9,557
    Last edited: 10 Jan 2019
    I think the question is why wouldn't they as the first step? If a landlord can't be bothered with the hassle of a simple form, they really shouldn't be in the business. So how are they getting their properties back? Are they acting illegally or offering non-paying tenants sums of money to leave?

    As NRC says, initiating the case gets the tenants' names published giving other landlords a valuable resource in identifying problem tenants. If every landlord did this and tenants became aware that their actions could see them effectively blacklisted, you might see a behaviour change.
     
    Last edited: 10 Jan 2019
  15. Dermot

    Dermot Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    1,028
    Ive been down the RTB road myself and it is not all that simple as described in your post to get a tenant blacklisted. Check all the steps that ere available to a bad tenant between appeals and other delaying tactics and with zero financial results. Despite the inference that I have and others I know have acted illegally or borderline illegally I categorically deny this and resent the implication.
    I have been in the business for over 30 years and I think I am capable of making certain decisions.
    Will soon start my exit from it as it is becoming a nightmare with paperwork and constantly changing regulation
     
    Saavy99 likes this.
  16. Leo

    Leo Moderator

    Posts:
    9,557
    You just need a judgement published. Surely if a tenant is not paying that isn't so difficult, the dispute reports published would suggest these cases don't end go through an unreasonable number of steps. Of course I accept the awards to landlords are in all likelihood rarely enforced, but that's a different matter.

    You're reading an inference that doesn't exist, it's a simple question. If landlords are not going through the RTB process, how are they dealing with tenants who simply don't pay? Another poster is suggesting this issue is rampant, I'm simply questioning that assertion and asking what they are doing instead.
     
    NoRegretsCoyote likes this.
  17. NoRegretsCoyote

    NoRegretsCoyote Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    244
    It's probably time consuming but it is really, really simple for a landlord to prove non-payment of rent at the RTB. It's not like damage or damp or lack or repair where you could have a 'he said/she said' situation.

    I cannot see why a landlord would not pursue this option.
     
  18. Bronte

    Bronte Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    13,016
    Which was entirely my point. Waste of time. And it takes ages. With zero result.
     
  19. Bronte

    Bronte Frequent Poster

    Posts:
    13,016
    Yep, pretty easy to prove you've not received the rent for months. And then what?
     
  20. Leo

    Leo Moderator

    Posts:
    9,557
    Do you not look up the disputes list as part of your vetting of new tenants? Would you not like if the names of all tenants who stopped paying their rent were published there so that you could avoid them for future lettings?
     
    NoRegretsCoyote likes this.