My ex is going on holiday in Ireland this weekend. She is taking our youngest two kids along with her partner. My son is at scout camp and only returns on Saturday, the day after she leaves for holiday. I assumed her plans would have changed to ensure our son was on the holiday, but my younger two mentioned to me that he isn't going and he is staying with friends. I've asked for clarification from my ex, but as so often the case it hasn't been forthcoming. My son is 13. Legally, what is my position. If she isn't collecting him from scouts when they return home, am I legally entitled to do so because at present I do not know who will be collecting my son nor where and with whom he'll be staying.
Ex on holiday leaving son with friend
- Thread starter GreenBoy
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I would second that - ask. The 13 year old is probably delighted not to be going on the holiday and most likely prefers to stay with his friend.
I have done that. But no information has been returned.
You are completely correct. There are other issues. But that aside; your suggesting that I neglect my duties as a parent.
Your first duty as a parent is to maintain a relationship with your children's other parent; and by that I don't mean to stay married, I mean to maintain a civil, respectful and courteous relationship so that you can effectively raise your children.
You know an arrangement has been made in regards to your older child; I would 100% agree that you have a right to be involved in the discussion on this arrangement. But the fact is that hasn't happened.
So you, and your former wife, need to sort out your communication issues and not use the children in these battles.
You know, albeit in a backdoor fashion (which I don't approve of), that your older child will stay with family friends.
I don't see any neglect issue here. I see two adults who aren't behaving like adults.
You know an arrangement has been made in regards to your older child; I would 100% agree that you have a right to be involved in the discussion on this arrangement. But the fact is that hasn't happened.
So you, and your former wife, need to sort out your communication issues and not use the children in these battles.
You know, albeit in a backdoor fashion (which I don't approve of), that your older child will stay with family friends.
I don't see any neglect issue here. I see two adults who aren't behaving like adults.
A parent is perfectly entitled to allow a child stay over with friends and have others collect them from school, camp, etc.. What is your custody arrangement? Is there an agreement in place governing when the children stay with you?
Turning up without prior agreement to collect the child and prevent them staying with friends could have repercussions for you legally and in your relationship with the ex and more importantly your son.
My first duty as a parent is to protect and care for my children, not to maintain a relationship with their mum. That is a secondary duty, though an important one; yet one I've tried and been unable to fulfill.
Communication will never improve; I've proposed mediation many times and for what it's worth been through the family law courts many sittings to get my access in place. I've seen my ex ask that the children speak to the judge directly because she was certain the kids wouldn't want to see me. So it's against that backdrop that comms are not and probably will not ever be where they should be between two mature parents. Obviously this is just my opinion on things and I dare say her's will be significantly different, but that aside we've deviated from the original question. I wasn't asking for your views on my maturity; I'd asked about my legal position.
There is a specific mention in the agreement that mentions that in the event my ex is unable to provide primary care for the children, that she is to discuss with me and allow me to care for the children.
The difference with this and a sleep over is that (in my view) whilst on holidays, my ex is unable to provide primary care so should have discussed with me.
If you simply cannot get clarification from you son's mother about the arrangements then perhaps you could contact and ask him? Not ideal, but if he clarifies and he's ok with the arrangements and the friend's family are generally trustworthy then just let him stay for the few days (I presume?). Kids do stay with others from time to time.
But longer term you probably need to get communication and arrangements straightened out through the proper channels - e.g. solicitor, court etc. Again, not ideal and not as good as the parents just being at least businesslike about parenting matters.
I can sympathise with you. I've been there.
But longer term you probably need to get communication and arrangements straightened out through the proper channels - e.g. solicitor, court etc. Again, not ideal and not as good as the parents just being at least businesslike about parenting matters.
I can sympathise with you. I've been there.
Agreed. And I have already said so.
If your proposal to resolve that omission is to take your child from camp; I will tell you right now, it won't resolve it and worse still you will put your children in the middle of your battles.
I think this is where two things might be useful for you 1. take a really deep breath and 2. try and consider this from your son's point of view.
In an ideal world - wouldn't it be great if we lived in one of those - your son's mother would have discussed this with you and between you both a suitable arrangement might have been reached. But and its a big but, that's not the space you are in unfortunately.
So consider this from your son's point of view. He's having a ball (hopefully) at camp and is looking forward to spending time with his friend but camp finishes and Dad is there to collect him telling him he's going to have a great time with Dad for the week. How do you think he'll react and how will that reaction whether expressed or internal ultimately effect his relationship with you?
Like Clubman I've been there, and I can tell you 13 is a very tough age. No matter how you try and shield them from the ugliness of a breakup they see so much more than you think. So I'm going to suggest you consider an alternative:
Leave things as already arranged, when you do see your son be positive about him getting to spend time with his friend, engage with him about what he has done and be positive. Trust me when I say that is what he'll remember. I'd put money on it he's dreading upsetting you, getting mam in trouble, getting you in trouble, upsetting Mam and god knows what else. So make it easy on him.
Post holiday you need to consider communication with his mam going forward and I speak from a very similar position to you. I would highly recommend you consider a co-parenting course. Both I and my kids dad were advised to do one, he refused but I did it anyway and I'm really glad I did. It doesn't solve situations like your current one but its does help you refocus your mind to what you can do and ultimately vastly improves your relationship with your children. It also helps you deal with the other parent in a manner that takes all the heat and fight out of the situation. Its very hard for anyone to continue a fight when one of the two people refuses to engage in fighting.
And that deep breath, its helps, don't make knee jerk decisions, take time and a step back from the situation and pick what makes things easier for your child. It may seem "unfair" or "one-sided" but trust me your kids will respect how you have behaved - they do eventually turn into adults and will understand so much better what and why you have acted as you have
In an ideal world - wouldn't it be great if we lived in one of those - your son's mother would have discussed this with you and between you both a suitable arrangement might have been reached. But and its a big but, that's not the space you are in unfortunately.
So consider this from your son's point of view. He's having a ball (hopefully) at camp and is looking forward to spending time with his friend but camp finishes and Dad is there to collect him telling him he's going to have a great time with Dad for the week. How do you think he'll react and how will that reaction whether expressed or internal ultimately effect his relationship with you?
Like Clubman I've been there, and I can tell you 13 is a very tough age. No matter how you try and shield them from the ugliness of a breakup they see so much more than you think. So I'm going to suggest you consider an alternative:
Leave things as already arranged, when you do see your son be positive about him getting to spend time with his friend, engage with him about what he has done and be positive. Trust me when I say that is what he'll remember. I'd put money on it he's dreading upsetting you, getting mam in trouble, getting you in trouble, upsetting Mam and god knows what else. So make it easy on him.
Post holiday you need to consider communication with his mam going forward and I speak from a very similar position to you. I would highly recommend you consider a co-parenting course. Both I and my kids dad were advised to do one, he refused but I did it anyway and I'm really glad I did. It doesn't solve situations like your current one but its does help you refocus your mind to what you can do and ultimately vastly improves your relationship with your children. It also helps you deal with the other parent in a manner that takes all the heat and fight out of the situation. Its very hard for anyone to continue a fight when one of the two people refuses to engage in fighting.
And that deep breath, its helps, don't make knee jerk decisions, take time and a step back from the situation and pick what makes things easier for your child. It may seem "unfair" or "one-sided" but trust me your kids will respect how you have behaved - they do eventually turn into adults and will understand so much better what and why you have acted as you have
1st duty as a parent is your kids welfare
And you achieve that by maintaining a relationship with your child's other parent.
Amazingly wise words. Thanks for this considered response. I've since spoken to my other half who has said to text my son saying I hope he has a great time and if he needs anything over the next few days, just to give me a shout.
This reads like someone looking for a reason to go to war with their ex.
A thirteen year old going away on a scout trip, or staying in a friend's house, is perfectly normal stuff.
If you get involved in this, you'll get no where with your ex, and risk making things worse, and that's before you consider any risk of upsetting the thirteen year old, if they find out, or get dragged into it.
When you next speak with the thirteen year old, ask them what the arrangements were, and if there's genuinely been a risk taken with them, go speak with your solicitor and seek a court order, to amend the current custody arrangements.
Pick your battles, and don't risk alienating your child over your problems with their mother
A thirteen year old going away on a scout trip, or staying in a friend's house, is perfectly normal stuff.
If you get involved in this, you'll get no where with your ex, and risk making things worse, and that's before you consider any risk of upsetting the thirteen year old, if they find out, or get dragged into it.
When you next speak with the thirteen year old, ask them what the arrangements were, and if there's genuinely been a risk taken with them, go speak with your solicitor and seek a court order, to amend the current custody arrangements.
Pick your battles, and don't risk alienating your child over your problems with their mother
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Your ex has care provided for, the clauses around being unable to provide care are to cover what happens if one parent is sick or incapacitated and can't arrange a suitable alternative.
Don't go down the road of preventing your children from staying over at friends. Do you want them to meet and stay with friends when they are in your care?