EV Vs ICE Issues: Range

[losttheplot]

Instead of resale value look at cost to change. If EVs see a significant price drop, resale value may drop but cost of changing probably won't.
When the price does drop the grants and VRT will probably change to cancel the drop out.

 

[Blackrock1]

Good question! The basic problem is that we are on the cusp of game-changing new technology in the motor industry. As with any new technology, there is an early-adopter penalty if you buy in too soon. But equally, there's issues if you stick with the older technology. Petrol and diesel are going out of fashion, the manufacturers can't ditch them soon enough, and both fuels and vehicles will probably be taxed into oblivion anyway by the enviro-zealots. That makes a new ICE purchase very risky in my view - who'll want it in 5 years time? Possibly there's a viable strategy about buying new, or nearly new, now and holding for a decade or so until the EV market is mature. The problem with that is the enviro-zealots again who will impose ever increasing fuel taxes and road taxes on vehicles they don't like.

So, electric then? Similar problem. You pay 40k now, and in a few years, a better model with longer range is available for say 30k new. That destroys your resale value.

Throw into the mix the current worldwide shortage of new vehicles of all types and the corresponding dearth of used models coming on the market. It really is the worst possible time to be in the market for a new set of wheels.

Generally, I like to buy a quality car, nearly new, and hold for a decade or so. That option doesn't really exist right now and my existing car is into its second decade and has over 250000 km on the clock. So its days are limited. Best solution I can come up with is a 5 - 7 year old ICE, run it until it wears out and by then the EV market should have sorted itself out just before the really penal taxation approach makes ICE completely unviable.


I'm sure you're right. For the reasons above I expect that to change as EV technology improves in leaps and bounds.

you are very naive if you think car manufacturers will bring out new models in a few years that have longer range and are 'better' (whatever you mean by that) for 25% less than a current model.

 

[Blackrock1]

There's two elements to internal space, cabin space for passengers and boot space for luggage. The Passat is amply provided with both. The id3 isn't. You can only get Passat carrying capacity by sacrificing the rear seats! They are not comparable!

take it up with VW, the core point is that the passengers inside an ID3 have the same interior space as a passat, maybe the inanimate objects they carry with them dont but that wasnt the point made.

if you want the extra boot space get an id4 which is built off the same platform and has the same wheelbase as the ID3.

 

[Baby boomer]

you are very naive if you think car manufacturers will bring out new models in a few years that have longer range and are 'better' (whatever you mean by that) for 25% less than a current model.

And I presume you wrote that post on your trusty Commodore 64 and connected to askaboutmoney with a 300 baud dialup modem?

 

[Blackrock1]

And I presume you wrote that post on your trusty Commodore 64 and connected to askaboutmoney with a 300 baud dialup modem?

Thats a stupid analogy. it only serves to highlight you dont see EVs as cars, rather appliances.

Cars havent gotten any cheaper over the past 25 years despite all the changes and improvements.

Car buyers getting 'more for their money': New car prices have risen by less than inflation for 25 years - but petrol and insurance have rocketed

The average price of a new motor has risen from £12,207 in 1988 to £27,219 today, according to data from Auto Express.

www.thisismoney.co.uk

 

[Baby boomer]

take it up with VW, the core point is that the passengers inside an ID3 have the same interior space as a passat, maybe the inanimate objects they carry with them dont but that wasnt the point made.

It was actually. The point being made was that the id3 was comparable to a Passat. We now agree it isn't, and the appropriate comparitor is the Golf.

if you want the extra boot space get an id4 which is built off the same platform and has the same wheelbase as the ID3.

Hmmm, starting at 50k+ after the grant, and that's for the smaller battery size? I don't think so.

 

[PGF2016]

The point being made was that the id3 was comparable to a Passat. We now agree it isn't, and the appropriate comparitor is the Golf.

That's not the point that was being made. Here is the original post:

Also remember most evs have more space inside (especially purpose built ones) than the equivalent ICE car, i think VW claim that the ID3 is passat sized inside.

Note the word 'inside'. It's used twice in the comment.

 

[Baby boomer]

Thats a stupid analogy. it only serves to highlight you dont see EVs as cars, rather appliances.

The battery is the major component of the cost of an EV. Batteries have improved in capacity and dropped in price significantly over the last decade. This is expected to continue. Moore's law it isn't, but there is an improving price/performance curve that would be foolish to deny. That's got to feed into EV prices. And just about every car maker is claiming that EVs will shortly (5 years or so) be cheaper to manufacture than ICE. That's apart altogether from the possibility of any step change in battery technology that might be around the corner.

Cars havent gotten any cheaper over the past 25 years despite all the changes and improvements.

Cheaper? Probably not, but far far better. So more bang for your buck.

Car buyers getting 'more for their money': New car prices have risen by less than inflation for 25 years - but petrol and insurance have rocketed

The average price of a new motor has risen from £12,207 in 1988 to £27,219 today, according to data from Auto Express.

www.thisismoney.co.uk

 

[Baby boomer]

That's not the point that was being made. Here is the original post:

Note the word 'inside'. It's used twice in the comment.

The boot is inside the car, is it not?

 

[Blackrock1]

The battery is the major component of the cost of an EV. Batteries have improved in capacity and dropped in price significantly over the last decade. This is expected to continue. Moore's law it isn't, but there is an improving price/performance curve that would be foolish to deny. That's got to feed into EV prices. And just about every car maker is claiming that EVs will shortly (5 years or so) be cheaper to manufacture than ICE. That's apart altogether from the possibility of any step change in battery technology that might be around the corner.


Cheaper? Probably not, but far far better. So more bang for your buck.

You said 25% cheaper, there is no precedent for this, it is very unlikely to happen. The assumption that cheaper costs of production will lead to a cheaper end cost is naive. People are used to paying a certain price for cars, manufacturers will be loath to move away from that.

 

[Blackrock1]

The boot is inside the car, is it not?

you knew what was meant but i think your agenda is clear to see now.

 

[Baby boomer]

you knew what was meant but i think your agenda is clear to see now.

You're seeing agendas everywhere. My agenda is simple - I want the most cost effective and comfortable motoring possible.

 

[Blackrock1]

You're seeing agendas everywhere. My agenda is simple - I want the most cost effective and comfortable motoring possible.

And you landed on a Passat?

 

[Baby boomer]

And you landed on a Passat?

I'm tall, built proportionately, and did extensive motorway driving before I retired. It's a comfy, well-specced, reliable armchair on wheels that met my needs perfectly.

 

[Blackrock1]

I'm tall, built proportionately, and did extensive motorway driving before I retired. It's a comfy, well-specced, reliable armchair on wheels that met my needs perfectly.

It’s a relatively reliable mile muncher but the last word in comfort or refinement it definitely isn’t !

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Lads, we might have to ban the discussion of EVs as we don't seem to be able to have an adult discussion about them.

Brendan