Estate not in Charge of Council

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lemon1984

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We were meant to be closing on a house next week and drawing down funds tomorrow. The contracts were signed subject to a letter from the council stating that the roads and services were in charge. The vendors solicitor suggested that they were but it turns out they aren't according to the council. The estate is older than me, so the developer is long gone, and there is no management company. So everything is on hold.

The vendors solicitor is currently investigating it. However the whole thing seems really odd to me. There are stop signs and road markings in the estate. When there is a water outage and the council post on facebook they will include this estate if its also out. There are also some of those yellow H signs and the white SV signs for marking things. There are street lights in the estate, with the stickers on them labeling them like ones used by the council, and I can also go on the councils website right now and report a fault for any of these street lights because they are marked as covered on the website.

Is it possible that the council might have made a mistake in saying this estate is not in charge? The estate is in really good condition, I doubt the residents are paying for all this, its less than 10 houses and in the middle of the town. The current owners have no idea who pays for it.
 
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lemon1984 said:
There are street lights in the estate, with the stickers on them labeling them like ones used by the council, and I can also go on the councils website right now and report a fault for any of these street lights because they are marked as covered on the website.
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I lived in an old estate once in which the lights were "in charge" but the roads (and what lies beneath them) were not. On enquiries it appeared that at one time estates could be taken partially in charge (the lights only, as far as I know) without the rest. The water and sewerage worked as normal. The trouble would be if there was to be problem with any of these (blockage, burst pipe). There is noone to fix them - well Irish Water would probably fix the burst pipe in their own interest but may not restore the road as it had been. Also, the Council would not re-surface, repair roads, pathways, etc. I recall a resident's collection to remedy sewerage works.

Apparently Councils stopped operating like this years ago - nowadays it is either fully taken in charge or it is not.

In short, it is possible that it is not in charge. Strange that the Council would say it is not in charge if it is.
 
Thanks for the reply. Never knew that. There was a burst pipe in this estate a few years back..it made the local news. Irish Water was the one who fixed it. Looking at the road in the estate, there have been plenty of repairs to the road and paths it seems. The vendors say they never paid for any though.
 
I'm sure the solicitor will find out quickly enough if it is in charge or not. Even if is not in charge it shouldn't necessarily put you off if it is a nice place to live otherwise. I take it that it is just an estate of houses ( no apartments, etc which might complicate matters). The lights being in charge is a big thing - and the residents can put in an application to the Council (although it may take years).

There are lots of estates not in charge around the country. Here's a google search link - see if yours is on it :

 
Early Riser,
Thank you for putting up that list and the other information. Appreciate it.
 
Thanks for the replies and information. Very helpful. My councillor was able to confirm further that it isnt in charge but they do maintain the lights because of health and safety. We would be happy to still go ahead personally as long as its acceptable to the lender. Fingers crossed.
 
You should probably check if there is a need for public liability insurance in the estate and who would be responsible for this.

Also, in more recent estates that have not been taken in charge, it is likely for the common areas to be owned by the original developer. Under the MUD act, these common areas should be transferred to the management company since 2011. But if there is no management company, I am not sure what would happen. A problem can arise if the original developer wants to extend the estate in future and can do what he likes if he owns the common areas.

Check the deeds for the house or the property register to see who owns the common areas, if relevant ...
 
The developer still owns the common areas but they were dissolved back in the early 90's.
The Councillor is going to look into the situation with the council for me further and we are still waiting on the vendors solicitor to come back to us with his investigations.
 
benji2006 said:
You should probably check if there is a need for public liability insurance in the estate and who would be responsible for this.
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It would probably be the developer who is responsible for any such insurance. But with "historical estates", such as the one referred to in the OP, the development company is often gone out of existence - as is the case here. Therefore it is extremely unlikely that there is any insurance in place. The residents do not own the common areas either. These old estates were developed long before the MUD Act and probably never had any requirement for a Management Company. The only way to resolve the issue is for the residents to get together and apply to the local authority to have the estate taken in charge. This is a slow process.

It might be worth doing a search for the relevant local authority's taking in charge policy (should be online). Look particularly for a section on "older" or "historical" estates.
 
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I'd been told by the Estate Agent when viewing that there is a Residents Association in place and they collect around €100 per year from each house. I'd say this is mostly for grass cutting. There is no management company.
 
lemon1984 said:
I'd been told by the Estate Agent when viewing that there is a Residents Association in place and they collect around €100 per year from each house. I'd say this is mostly for grass cutting. There is no management company.
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And, as it is a Residents Association, it is voluntary. There can be no penalty for not paying (other than social, possibly:))
 
PatrickSmithUS said:
That's not the case. It's included in the contracts for the houses that were purchased that the charge must be paid. It's also a condition of sale that all outstanding fees must be paid before selling on. A breach of contract law I think.
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That would then be a management company, and not a residents' association. Payment to a residents association couldn't be mandated in a sale contract.
 
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