Estate Agent wanting to know how much mortgage approval for!

peteb said:
That's just estate agents and vendors. They would do that even if they didnt know what your maximum amount was. I bought the house I'm in 3 years ago. We had sold and moved into my parents for a few months. House went up for sale. Wife viewed it on the first weekend and loved it. Asking was 380k. I went straight in at 400k and my offer was valid for 24 hours only. Needless to say there was an offer shortly after for 405k and in the end we were old the vendor wanted to 420k and the first to bid it got it. I only had approval to 350k, the rest was cash so he had no idea what i was playing with but it still went there.
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He knew, if you are a second time buyer, the odds were very high that you could go to at least 437.5k if you/wife wanted it enough (87.5k would be 20% deposit unless you got an exemption).
No guarantees this made any difference (or that you're a second time buyer) but maybe it made the difference between you being told the vendor wanted 420 vs 410. So why let someone on the other side of the table know? Especially when they have a lot more experience at selling houses than you have buying them.
 
abc_xyz said:
He knew, if you are a second time buyer, the odds were very high that you could go to at least 437.5k if you/wife wanted it enough (87.5k would be 20% deposit unless you got an exemption).
No guarantees this made any difference (or that you're a second time buyer) but maybe it made the difference between you being told the vendor wanted 420 vs 410. So why let someone on the other side of the table know? Especially when they have a lot more experience at selling houses than you have buying them.
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He'd no idea and I could barely get to 380k! And I had a friend that knew the vendor and the 420k was been driven by the vendor and not the EA.
 
abc_xyz said:
He knew, if you are a second time buyer, the odds were very high that you could go to at least 437.5k if you/wife wanted it enough (87.5k would be 20% deposit unless you got an exemption).
No guarantees this made any difference (or that you're a second time buyer) but maybe it made the difference between you being told the vendor wanted 420 vs 410. So why let someone on the other side of the table know? Especially when they have a lot more experience at selling houses than you have buying them.
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I find it really bizarre that people think buying a house is a game of poker. Especially in the current climate. Buyers at the moment have zero bargaining power or ability to bluff apart from the ability to walk away. House three doors down from went on the market last month for €610k. They had five viewings on the Saturday. On the Monday lunchtime, the highest bid was €645k. It eventually sold at €660k by the following weekend to a cash buyer. That's the market people are competing in at the moment. They are not competing against fake bids. They are bidding against people with significant cash deposits and/or significant equity in property. They are bidding against a large number of cash buyers. They are competing against institutional buyers. Estate Agents these days can sell a house without even advertising it because they have a list of buyers looking for a property.
 
Sunny said:
They are bidding against a large number of cash buyers.
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Heard this anecdotally from the EA valuing my mother's 1950s Dublin suburban house the other day alright. He said that the local market is red hot with many many cash buyers. And most who have bought in the area in recent years tear the places apart and do major extensions and renovations before moving in. It's mad stuff... And to think that the original occupiers used to grow cabbages, onions and spuds in their front and back gardens back in the day. How quaint, darling... :D
 
Sunny said:
House three doors down from went on the market last month for €610k. They had five viewings on the Saturday. On the Monday lunchtime, the highest bid was €645k. It eventually sold at €660k by the following weekend to a cash buyer. That's the market people are competing in at the moment. They are not competing against fake bids.
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Maybe, maybe not... Have you seen evidence to verify every bid?

There's a limit to the number of genuine cash buyers wanting to buy houses in Ireland - and with prices high, yields low, and interest rates likely to rise, those houses are hardly good investments, if you take a 5-7 year horizon.

Cash buyers, looking for a home, represent a small percentage of house buyers, always have done, and always will do. Investors come and go, and are less likely to buy single houses, than blocks of apartments, or entire developments etc.
 
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MrEarl said:
Maybe, maybe not... Have you seen evidence to verify every bid?

There's a limit to the number of genuine cash buyers wanting to buy houses in Ireland - and with prices high, yields low, and interest rates likely to rise, those houses are hardly good investments, if you take a 5-7 year horizon.

Cash buyers represent a small percentage of house buyers, always have done, and always will do. Investors come and go, and are less likely to buy single houses, than blocks of apartments, or entire developments etc.
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Have you seen evidence to verify that estate agents are engaging in fake bids or using shady practices to drive up prices??

You think yields in property are low at the moment????

Oh and it was estimated that approximately 40% of sales in Ireland in 2019 and 2020 were cash buys. This is probably higher after Covid.
 
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Hello Sunny,

Do you work in the property industry, or a related industry, with a vested interest, by any chance?

I'm seriously struggling to understand where your might be coming from, otherwise.
 
These estate agents appear to be the cleverest people in Ireland. They're wasted in their current role. :rolleyes:
 
MrEarl said:
Hello Sunny,

Do you work in the property industry, or a related industry, with a vested interest, by any chance?

I'm seriously struggling to understand where your might be coming from, otherwise.
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Eh no......Just hate conspiracy theories. I have sold 2 properties in Dublin and bought one in the past two years. I used an EA for one sale and sold the other myself. I have seen first hand what the bidding is like and who is bidding. The idea that some redacted letter saying that the buyer is approved for the purchase price might be ok in a normal market but not in a market like we have at the moment. Bids are not going up in 1000's every couple of days. They are going up in 5k and 10k lots by the hour. A letter could be out of date of date 1 hour after it was issued.

If people are not happy to provide details to the EA, then walk away. Nobody is forcing you to bid. If you think you are competing against a fake bid, leave your offer on the table and walk away. It is a sellers market though. Buyers have zero room to play poker or bluff in the current market. I don't think people really understand the limited supply of housing and the amount of money out there looking for a property.
 
Thanks for the reply - while I find conspiracy theories mildly entertaining, on occasion, that's not applicable here, from my perspective.

Giving your opponent a competitive advantage, where they have a vested interest in maximising the sale price, and you have to suffer the financial consequences of same, is madness.

I'm not saying that all EA's are untrustworthy, but I'm sure as hell not accepting that all are honest, and honourable, in their dealings, either. So, if they don't know the amount of the mortgage approval, it simply removes the temptation for the bad EA's, to do the wrong thing.

I'm very much aware of the Irish property market, understand the concept of demand and supply etc. But I've also seen enough EA's in action over the years, to know that they are partly responsible for driving prices up - increases of €500 are more than sufficient, in a bidding process, there's no need for greedy EA's to pressurise bidders (through various means) into increasing their bids by €5k or €10k at a time.
 
Sunny said:
Oh and it was estimated that approximately 40% of sales in Ireland in 2019 and 2020 were cash buys. This is probably higher after Covid.
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It was as high as 63% in 2013! That said though, the 'cash buyers' should really be called non-mortgage buyers as they include institutional money that is likely debt backed.
 
In my point of view, When we were looking at and bidding on houses a few years ago, we saw two properties with two of the largest real estate agents in the country, I discovered that one acted in a completely unprofessional and embarrassing manner. It ended with a meeting with the seller in his living room with the real estate agent embarrassed in the corner as silent as a field mouse. The second real estate agency made up bogus offers and I also confronted them. Absolutely disgraceful behavior on both sides.
 
joyadrian said:
In my point of view, When we were looking at and bidding on houses a few years ago, we saw two properties with two of the largest real estate agents in the country, I discovered that one acted in a completely unprofessional and embarrassing manner. It ended with a meeting with the seller in his living room with the real estate agent embarrassed in the corner as silent as a field mouse. The second real estate agency made up bogus offers and I also confronted them. Absolutely disgraceful behavior on both sides.
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Always great to hear personal anecdotes, with no names or data to back it up.
Did by chance file a complaint with the PSRA that can be looked up, so people can avoid those estate agents?
 
One of the drivers of prices in South Dublin particularly is skyrocketing share prices.

Many staff in the leading tech hq's have substantial stock options and even after paying tax, they can bid big figures without needing a mortgage.

So it's not all big investment funds buying without a mortgage.
 
MrEarl said:
Thanks for the reply - while I find conspiracy theories mildly entertaining, on occasion, that's not applicable here, from my perspective.

Giving your opponent a competitive advantage, where they have a vested interest in maximising the sale price, and you have to suffer the financial consequences of same, is madness.

I'm not saying that all EA's are untrustworthy, but I'm sure as hell not accepting that all are honest, and honourable, in their dealings, either. So, if they don't know the amount of the mortgage approval, it simply removes the temptation for the bad EA's, to do the wrong thing.

I'm very much aware of the Irish property market, understand the concept of demand and supply etc. But I've also seen enough EA's in action over the years, to know that they are partly responsible for driving prices up - increases of €500 are more than sufficient, in a bidding process, there's no need for greedy EA's to pressurise bidders (through various means) into increasing their bids by €5k or €10k at a time.
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It's got nothing to do with estate agents. When I sold an apartment in Dublin, it had an asking price of €285,000. Within two days of the first viewing and after 6 viewings, it had three bidders and had reached €302,000. It sold 6 days later for €315,000. I got the full asking price on the first viewing with a cash offer. They didn't even leave the apartment before offering it. And it sold to a different cash buyer at the end. I had a couple of FTB's bid and their offers were blown out of the water within 30 minutes of them making it when I went back to the other bidders. That is who buyers are competing with. By all means don't hand over any information to the estate agent that you don't want to but also don't delude yourself into thinking that you are competing against fake bids in the current market.
 
newirishman said:
Always great to hear personal anecdotes, with no names or data to back it up.
Did by chance file a complaint with the PSRA that can be looked up, so people can avoid those estate agents?
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I dunno what that ejit is doing posting my post as his own. I can post the two estate agencies no problem but I'm assuming. Brendan will delete the post and ban me for doing so. So I cannot.
 
PebbleBeach2020 said:
Hence my reply to the fella giving out about not naming them. Is it defamation if it's true though???

I thought it was defamation if it was a lie.
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I suppose the bottom line is that Mr Burgess would need to see the evidence, so he can sleep easy - which is more than fair, given he's the one at risk. :)
 
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