Electricity Meter in an apartment - how to sub divide? Pre Pay meter?

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ThisisMax

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Hello,

We have a part of our house which we want to convert into an apartment. It is in good condition and will need a little work in 2023.
We are stuck on the electricty meter bit though.

Currently the electricity is recorded on a meter in the building (it was once an old office) but it goes through our home meter for charges - so all electricity including the potential apartment are on our bill. We want to seperate this into two bills.

Electrician says pre pay meter can be easily fitted to seperate both properties and tenants could pay on this meter.

I asked ESB about a seperate ESB meter and it seems like a very long and expensive process.
We would have to apply, get a team out, see where a new pole goes, dig trench to pole and to apartment, drill hole into the apartment, put in new meter, commission this and get it up and running so it is seperately billed.

The cost from ESB is gonig to be 6- 8000€... and a few months - maybe by summer.

Anybody done this or have any advice?
 
Build in the Electricity cost to the rent on a 'fair usage' basis. Coin based / pre-paid meters are generally more expensive and to be honest feel a miserable these days. How will you manage broadband?
 
you could put a "private meter" on the apartment and charge the tenant an agreed price per unit every month. That was something I did as a student, many years ago!
 
One simple way would be to charge any excess usage over what you normally have used in the past
Have a look at your electricity bills for the last year or two, not the money value but the units used
Then average the units out and any usage above this could be billed to the tenant
Not perfect but rather a short term solution till you decide which way to go
And as DannyBoyD enquired how are you going to deal with other utilities like BB and Gas
 
The simplest thing of all to do would be to build it into the bill. I lived in a self-contained apartment once and it was an "all bills" arrangement which was cheaper for everyone than the landlord installing a separate meter and having two sets of standing charges for me as a tenant.

As a tenant I got a tumble dryer and I agreed with the landlord to run a meter at the socket and refund her the cost, it was something like €30 over a winter.

There is honesty and trust necessary here, but that's going to be necessary anyway if you're living cheek by jowl with your tenant.
 
NoRegretsCoyote said:
The simplest thing of all to do would be to build it into the bill. I lived in a self-contained apartment once and it was an "all bills" arrangement which was cheaper for everyone than the landlord installing a separate meter and having two sets of standing charges for me as a tenant.

As a tenant I got a tumble dryer and I agreed with the landlord to run a meter at the socket and refund her the cost, it was something like €30 over a winter.

There is honesty and trust necessary here, but that's going to be necessary anyway if you're living cheek by jowl with your tenant.
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Building in the bills into the rent is the easiest solution.
But be clear in the contract that it is subject to reasonable usage.
If you can demonstrate that the units have spiked unreasonably, you can revisit the rent but also be able to demonstrate back to the tenant what the extra cost is and then work together on a reasonable cost.

Dont forget bins as well, the volume of rubbish will increase.
 
A sub meter is the easiest and best option.

I had one in part of a store I was renting a few years ago. The main tenant simply took the reading and applied an agreed unit rate and sent me a bill.

A good electrician will advise properly
 
Building in the bills into the rent is the easiest solution.
But be clear in the contract that it is subject to reasonable usage.
If you can demonstrate that the units have spiked unreasonably, you can revisit the rent but also be able to demonstrate back to the tenant what the extra cost is and then work together on a reasonable cost.

Dont forget bins as well, the volume of rubbish will increase.

Thats good advice thank you @AndroidMan
I know what the usage is monthly as I can take 1st month reading and take it from 30th month reading and I know unit cost. So its easy to do that. Its the convenience of a seperate meter that would be good.

Bins can be through our local bin service - they can provide to the address.
 
peemac said:
A sub meter is the easiest and best option.

I had one in part of a store I was renting a few years ago. The main tenant simply took the reading and applied an agreed unit rate and sent me a bill.

A good electrician will advise properly
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Thanks. I already have a sub meter there but that cant be billed seperately but I can use it to record the usage as you suggest. The amount of changes to tarrifs in past year has been hard to follow.
 
Leo said:
Have you spoken to your local authority on the likelihood of getting the required planning permission for this?
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Planning is OK as it was previously residential a while ago. It was RTB registered so thats proof it waas rented.
 
ThisisMax said:
Planning is OK as it was previously residential a while ago. It was RTB registered so thats proof it waas rented.
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RTB registration does not mean planning permission is in place for the proposed development. They have no role in matters of planning.

It sounds like you are sub-dividing a property to create a separate unit, this is not an exempted development.
 
Leo said:
RTB registration does not mean planning permission is in place for the proposed development. They have no role in matters of planning.

It sounds like you are sub-dividing a property to create a separate unit, this is not an exempted development.

There is precedence for rental already in place. Its a seperate house on deeds, for LPT and RTB previously. There is nothing stopping anybody from renting out their home (go travelling, getting married, retiring) either through full rental or through rent a room (if they continue to live there).
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How do you think people rent out their homes when they travel, retire, get married, downsize? They dont go for planning permission each time. They register them with the RTB which does not even check if its subject to planning.
If you have rent a room they dont even check if its part of planning. They just give you14K a year tax free.

Nobody I know renting a house checks planning for material change of use which is what you are talking about.
 
Just for curiosity on the above post by @Leo I rang my local council who confirmed that no there is no need to go for planning. 'Once its rented, its registered on RTB, Not an AirBnB in the RPZ zone, its not changed outside of refurbishment norms then its good to go'
Thats how anyone who rents anything out would proceed. I imagine if it was a shop on a High St and I wanted to convert then I'd have to go for change of use.
 
ThisisMax said:
Just for curiosity on the above post by @Leo I rang my local council who confirmed that no there is no need to go for planning. 'Once its rented, its registered on RTB, Not an AirBnB in the RPZ zone, its not changed outside of refurbishment norms then its good to go'
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What question did you ask?

It sounds like you have misunderstood what I was saying. Planning of course isn't required to rent a property. However, you can not split a dwelling in to two separate units without planning, and both units will have to be fully compliant with the relevant building regs. Splitting a dwelling into two units is not a refurbishment norm.

Of course there may be circumstances where exempted works might get you over the line, if you feel that is the case you should seek a Section 5 declaration from the local authority to confirm all is above board.

ThisisMax said:
I imagine if it was a shop on a High St and I wanted to convert then I'd have to go for change of use.
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Actually if the shop has been vacant for a time exemptions under the Bringing Back Homes scheme might apply. But we're not talking change of use here.
 
Leo said:
What question did you ask?

It sounds like you have misunderstood what I was saying. Planning of course isn't required to rent a property. However, you can not split a dwelling in to two separate units without planning, and both units will have to be fully compliant with the relevant building regs. Splitting a dwelling into two units is not a refurbishment norm.

Of course there may be circumstances where exempted works might get you over the line, if you feel that is the case you should seek a Section 5 declaration from the local authority to confirm all is above board.
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The building is already in two. Two seperate doors, two seperate gas, LPT, ESB (sub meter but not individual meter). No planning requirement from me. I can rent it but need a better meter solution.
 
ThisisMax said:
The building is already in two. Two seperate doors, two seperate gas, LPT, ESB (sub meter but not individual meter). No planning requirement from me. I can rent it but need a better meter solution.
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Your use of the work conversion suggested more works were required. Perhaps just check the planning that is in place, in many cases where separation like you speak of is incorporated, the permission will explicitly forbid letting part of it.
 
Leo said:
Your use of the work conversion suggested more works were required. Perhaps just check the planning that is in place, in many cases where separation like you speak of is incorporated, the permission will explicitly forbid letting part of it.
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No its already in place, seperate etc. Planning is in place it was just the meter query that was my worry.
 
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JohnJay said:
you could put a "private meter" on the apartment and charge the tenant an agreed price per unit every month. That was something I did as a student, many years ago!
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I had one of those after PRTB made my landlord put in hot running water. Rate at 2x the ESB rate. I moved within 2 months.
 
ThisisMax said:
The building is already in two. Two seperate doors, two seperate gas, LPT, ESB (sub meter but not individual meter). No planning requirement from me. I can rent it but need a better meter solution.
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if you have a "sub meter" can you not just take the reading from that and extrapolate a reasonable chargeback to the tenants for the power they actually use?
 
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