Electrical Trade Union demanding arrears & proof that still employed in the industry?

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bonzos

Registered User
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hi folks,

I had been working in the electrical industry for nearly 10 years when last April the company i was working for went into liquidation. During this time i was always a fully paid up member of my electrical union.

When the company I was working for shut down I encountered great difficulties in releasing the money i was owed for holiday pay, wages overdue etc.

At this point i made several attempts to get my union to deal with the matter but was left to sort out the matter myself.

Since then I have been employed in a different occupation.

Over the last few months i have received a number of letters demanding outstanding arrears and stating that I MUST prove that I no longer work in the industry.

Am I obliged to prove to them where i am currently employed?
 
Re: Union question?

I'd send them a letter stating that as they had failed in their contractual obligations in assisting you to secure your legal entitlements from your previous employer, they ceased to represent you at that point, that you no longer want them to correspond with you at your private address regarding business-related matters and that any further demands for arrears will be viewed by you as harassment and referred to the appropriate authorities.

Or just pop the unopened envelopes marked "Return to Sender, Addressee Unknown" into a local post office box.

As regards what you may or may not be obliged to prove or disprove to them, what did your contract with them for representation say? I would certainly not be tempted into revealing to them where I now work.
 
Re: Electrical Trade Union demanding arrears & proof that still employed in the indus

Ring the main man, and tell him your situation. also ring the sender.You have no obligation to pay, or prove anything to them.

I assume your dues were taken from wages, and when wages stopped ....

Very poor reflection on this Union, when you required service they were unable to help.

Can you name and shame this Union ??
 
Re: Electrical Trade Union demanding arrears & proof that still employed in the indus

Do some craft unions still operate what used to be called a "closed shop"?

The way this used to work was that certain sites would only allow unionised craft workers on the site.
 
Re: Electrical Trade Union demanding arrears & proof that still employed in the indus

If i seek work again in the electrcal industry again and cant / dont wish to prove where i have been empolyed the union (TEEU) cant prevent me working on alot of sites.

The way i see it is that i always kept my side of the deal by paying my dues but when i looked for a service in return they didnt even have the manners to return a phone call.

The only correspondence i seem to get is demands for money.
 
Re: Electrical Trade Union demanding arrears & proof that still employed in the indus

Ajapale,


" Closed shop" is illegal under EU Legislation. As everybody has the right to join a trade Union, consequently, they have the right to opt out.


Bonzos,

Ring your Union, and clarify why they expect payment, and why you should prove your wherabouts. The reason I say ring is, letters are an easy way of communicating messages you would not like to state verbally , and to confront them with this ridiculous request.
 
Re: Electrical Trade Union demanding arrears & proof that still employed in the indus

thanks for your help guys , i will follow up on this with great interest.
 
Re: Electrical Trade Union demanding arrears & proof that still employed in the indus

crumdub12 said:
" Closed shop" is illegal under EU Legislation.
Click to expand...

Can you point to the legislation where this is enacted in Irish Employment Law?

bonzos said:
pay... my dues but when i looked for a service in return ........
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that this is how membership of a trade union works. I don't think that unions (particularly craft unions) see themselves as providing a service.
 
Re: Electrical Trade Union demanding arrears & proof that still employed in the indus

ajapale said:
I'm not sure that this is how membership of a trade union works. I don't think that unions (particularly craft unions) see themselves as providing a service.
Click to expand...
What exactly do they see as their role then, if not to help their members by providing them with a service (advice, support, mediation, making ridiculous demands for wage increases from the exchequer etc.) ?
 
Re: Electrical Trade Union demanding arrears & proof that still employed in the indus

Pique318 said:
What exactly do they see as their role then, if not to help their members by providing them with a service
Click to expand...

Some older Unions worked on the basis of creating a good working environment, negotiating wages, improving work standards etc ... , and not much involvement with the individual.

Pique318 said:
( making ridiculous demands for wage increases from the exchequer etc.) ?
Click to expand...

What ridiculous wage demands are you talking about ??? , am very interested in your reply ....
 
Re: Electrical Trade Union demanding arrears & proof that still employed in the indus

bonzos said:
Over the last few months i have received a number of letters demanding outstanding arrears and stating that I MUST prove that I no longer work in the industry.

Am I obliged to prove to them where i am currently employed?
Click to expand...

You would probably be better off dealing with their request and having your membership suspended while you're not working in the trade, rather than allowing an arrears situation to continue.
You may very well decide to go back to electrical work at some time in the future and you will need the card then.

Regardless of any legislation mentioned in previous posts, the situation in the electrical trade is that we operate under a Registered Employment Agreement, and Section 8 of the REA states that all operatives must be members of the union.
You can read the REA by following the links from here.
 
Re: Electrical Trade Union demanding arrears & proof that still employed in the indus

Nice One Hoagy,



I did,nt deal with the industry specific issue, that as a member of TEEU , you have a standard TEEU contract of work, that covers terms and conditions, if you are not a member you can negotiate your own T+Cs ......., that is my understanding, if wrong please update.
 
Re: Electrical Trade Union demanding arrears & proof that still employed in the indus

crumdub12 said:
Nice One Hoagy,



I did,nt deal with the industry specific issue, that as a member of TEEU , you have a standard TEEU contract of work, that covers terms and conditions, if you are not a member you can negotiate your own T+Cs ......., that is my understanding, if wrong please update.
Click to expand...

I wish...

Unfortunately the High Court has ruled that the REA applies to all employers and employees in the trade, whether they're members of the signatory bodies or not.
The only people who can set their own T&C are the self employed.
 
Re: Electrical Trade Union demanding arrears & proof that still employed in the indus

Ooooh ....


So members / non-members of TEEU are bound by their contract. Can OP work onsite without TEEU membership ??, what would be downside on non membership...

Even though I quoted EU Law I know it can be paid lip service to in certain area ...
 
Re: Electrical Trade Union demanding arrears & proof that still employed in the indus

Thanks Hoagy,


You live and learn.
 
Re: Electrical Trade Union demanding arrears & proof that still employed in the indus

A very interesting conflict between the European Charter and domestic labour arises here.

Crumb has pointed out:

The Community Charter of the Social Fundamental Rights of Workers, adopted in 1989, also ensures the freedom of association. Paragraph 11 of this Charter states "Employers and workers of the European Community shall have the right of association in order to constitute professional organizations or trade unions of their choice for the defense of their economic and social interests. Every employer and every worker shall have the freedom to join or not to join such organizations without any personal or occupational damage being thereby suffered him."
Click to expand...
and Hoagy has pointed out:

the situation in the electrical trade is that we operate under a Registered Employment Agreement, and Section 8 of the REA states that all operatives must be members of the union.
You can read the REA by following the links from here.
Click to expand...
Im guessing but perhaps Ireland has a derogation or an opt out from the charter? (or as suggested by crumb Ireland has a "fudge out"?)
 
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