Eirgrid almost ran short of electricity last week

[Zenith63]

The fact is that if we cut back our agricultural output because of CO2 levies somebody else is still going to have to produce that food because brits and Germans still need to eat.

A certain amount of that would happen yes, but Ireland does significant work around the world to induce demand for our agricultural outputs like milk/beef/pork. There's a fairly strong argument that there are people in other countries swapping from more vegetable/local based diets to high CO2 output diets including milk/beef/pork from countries like Ireland.

However I agree with you that if the agri emissions that would simply shift to other EU countries can be identified, it is unfair that Ireland should have these added to our total.

 

[Purple]

A certain amount of that would happen yes, but Ireland does significant work around the world to induce demand for our agricultural outputs like milk/beef/pork. There's a fairly strong argument that there are people in other countries swapping from more vegetable/local based diets to high CO2 output diets including milk/beef/pork from countries like Ireland.

However I agree with you that if the agri emissions that would simply shift to other EU countries can be identified, it is unfair that Ireland should have these added to our total.

Beef production would continue to shift to South America. The net environmental impact would be greater. If we aren't going to reduce our red meat consumption then the best thing the EU could do is reduce its environmental standards and increase food production. As things stand we have simply outsourced our pollution to parts of the world which are outside temperate zones and so the environmental impact per calorie is far greater. Bear in mind that it takes 15,415 litres of water to produce a kilo of beef. It rains more here than in Brazilian prairies or the Pampas.

 

[kinnjohn]

Stupid mutton-headed knuckle-dragging mouth-breathers who ignore science and the real issues were the empty vessels making all the local noise and, given the gombeen nature of Irish politics, those people were listened to.

I suspect you are correct, but they are no longer down the Country
I will be sitting by a lovely turf fire this winter after I plug my EV into the national grid,
tripping in a diesel generator up in Dublin,

 

[Purple]

I suspect you are correct, but they are no longer down the Country
I will be sitting by a lovely turf fire this winter after I plug my EV into the national grid,
tripping in a diesel generator up in Dublin,

Would you prefer a Turf fire and Turf powered car? Because previously that's what you had.

 

[Purple]

At some stage over the next decade or two I hope that the world will embrace clean nuclear technology. When that happens we'll have a green energy source which is actually sustainable and a viable alternative to burning hydrocarbons.

 

[kinnjohn]

I like the turf fire,
I like the idea I can say I had a turf powered car now running on diesel, and solar panels,

 

[kinnjohn]

At some stage over the next decade or two I hope that the world will embrace clean nuclear technology. When that happens we'll have a green energy source which is actually sustainable and a viable alternative to burning hydrocarbons.

I am old enough to remember the proposal to build a plant back around 1970,
The anti-nuclear lobby was a Dublin based group I can still remember some of the people involved right up until
Electrical regulation act 1999 when nuclear power generation was banned in Ireland,
You can check which TDs and parties voted for it, online,

Check it out and see do you recognize any of the stupid mutton headed knuckle-dragging mouth breathers gombeens you posted about
who still vote for TDs and parties who were in favor of the ban on nuclear power,
I think the leader of the Government who brought in the act was a Dubliner,

 

[Purple]

I am old enough to remember the proposal to build a plant back around 1970,
The anti-nuclear lobby was a Dublin based group I can still remember some of the people involved right up until
Electrical regulation act 1999 when nuclear power generation was banned in Ireland,
You can check which TDs and parties voted for it, online,

Check it out and see do you recognize any of the stupid mutton headed knuckle-dragging mouth breathers gombeens you posted about
who still vote for TDs and parties who were in favor of the ban on nuclear power,
I think the leader of the Government who brought in the act was a Dubliner,

I wouldn't be a fan of building plants which were designed before computers were invented, like the one in Chernobyl or the old one in Windscale, but things have moved on in the last 70 years. If we were all flying around in planes which were designed in the 1950's there'd be crashes every day.
I agree that there's no shortage of mutton-heads around the place.

 

[joe sod]

I suspect you are correct, but they are no longer down the Country

I think that's the key point we have always had the a few rural "gombeen" politicians in the dail however there are very few of these guys left and the few that are left have no power. However gombeen politics is even stronger now than ever where narrow self interest and electoral calculations trump everything else. However an even bigger issue is the government hiving off major decisions to NGOs who themselves have narrow interests and do not bear any responsibilities for the consequences of the decisions they make. The decision to prematurely close the Midlands power stations is a classic example of that.

 

[kinnjohn]

I wouldn't be a fan of building plants which were designed before computers were invented, like the one in Chernobyl or the old one in Windscale, but things have moved on in the last 70 years. If we were all flying around in planes which were designed in the 1950's there'd be crashes every day.
I agree that there's no shortage of mutton-heads around the place.

Was there no computers in Dublin In 1999 when the banned nuclear power generation in Ireland,

I did say the same anti-nuclear people involved in 1970 were still involved in getting it banned in 1999 in my post,

It is very interesting to go online and see who the TDs were who voted for it,

Believe it or not, your argument is not new it was put forward what they were banning was cleaner than the existing power generation plants, but they still went ahead and banned nuclear generation in Ireland,
nothing got to do with pressure from TDs from turf powered generation areas,

only a real wet behind the ears gombeen would buy your version of events leading up to the temporary diesel generators been installed in Dublin,
But Then We Never See Our Own Faults Easier To See Them In Someone Else,

 

[Purple]

Was there no computers in Dublin In 1999 when the banned nuclear power generation in Ireland,

No. Where did I suggest that?

I did say the same anti-nuclear people involved in 1970 were still involved in getting it banned in 1999 in my post,

I know. I said that I wasn't a fan of the plant in Chernobyl or the old one in Windscale which were designed before computers were around.

It is very interesting to go online and see who the TDs were who voted for it,

I'm sure it is.

Believe it or not, the argument was being put forward that what they were banning was cleaner than the existing power generation plants,

Plants that were designed in the 90's are cleaner than turf and diesel powered plants.
Travelling Wave Reactors are intrinsically safe and consume existing nuclear waste as a power source. That is the new technology I was referring to.

only a real wet behind the ears gombeen would buy your version of events leading up to the temporary diesel generators been installed in Dublin,

So what do you think my version of events is?

But Then We Never See Our Own Faults Easier To See Them In Someone Else,

Indeed.

For the record I think that the plants in the midlands should have been upgraded to or replaced with waste incinerator power stations. I also think the Incinerator should have been built in Dublin.
If built properly they pose a very low risk to the public or the environment.

 

[kinnjohn]

So what do you think my version of events is?

A reconfiguration of the anti-nuclear lobby train of thought from a different angle,

 

[Purple]

A reconfiguration of the anti-nuclear lobby train of thought from a different angle,

I don't know what you mean by that.
I'm pro-Nuclear.
I'm against burning our Bogs. If we has forests I'd be against burning them too. Both are excellent Carbon sinks but bogs are better.

 

[kinnjohn]

the question is would you or have you vote for a party or TDs who supported the nuclear ban on power generation in Ireland,
When they come knocking on your door do you tell them to come back when they vote to remove the ban on nuclear generation,

 

[Purple]

the question is would you or have you vote for a party or TDs who supported the nuclear ban on power generation in Ireland,
When they come knocking on your door do you tell them to come back when they vote to remove the ban on nuclear generation,

Why does that matter?
No party will have the courage to take the issue on until we are forced to do so by the inevitable shortcomings which are emerging in our current strategy becoming impossible to ignore.
the first thing that has to happen is that TerraPower build their Travelling Wave Reactor in China, as was the plan before Trump banned the sharing of Nuclear Technology with China. There's no way we'll ever be brave enough to embrace new technology like that first.

 

[kinnjohn]

Why does that matter?

no point in calling people stupid mutton headed knuckle-dragging mouth breathing gombeens and then say why does it matter, what our politicians stand for,
I can see why the gombeen is alive and well in your neck of the woods,
just look at all the NIMBY pressure groups that spring up in Dublin in relation to planning applications,
and all the politicians from all parties genuflecting in front of them gombeens to the bone,

 

[Purple]

no point in calling people stupid mutton headed knuckle-dragging mouth breathing gombeens and then say why does not matter, what our politicians stand for,
I can see why the gombeen is alive and well in your neck of the woods,
just look at all the NIMBG pressure groups that spring up in Dublin in relation to planning applications,
and all the politicians from all parties genuflecting in front of them gombeens to the bone,

There's no shortage of stupid mutton headed knuckle-dragging mouth breathing gombeens anywhere in the country. The planning objections in Dublin is an excellent example. The trouble is that gonbeens elect their own.
The grown-ups in the EU will eventually force us to face reality.

 

[joe sod]

For the record I think that the plants in the midlands should have been upgraded to or replaced with waste incinerator power stations. I also think the Incinerator should have been built in Dublin.
If built properly they pose a very low risk to the public or the environment

That's what should have happened, but it was also included in the decision that the power plants had to be dismantled, extraordinary. Shannonbridge was only a decade old, anecdotally the generators were shipped to China where they will more than likely be powered by coal. Surely if eirgrid say that the station is critical for power supply in the immediate future that should trump the planning authority.

 

[Purple]

That's what should have happened, but it was also included in the decision that the power plants had to be dismantled, extraordinary. Shannonbridge was only a decade old, anecdotally the generators were shipped to China where they will more than likely be powered by coal. Surely if eirgrid say that the station is critical for power supply in the immediate future that should trump the planning authority.

Or converted it to coal. Anything but peat.

 

[kinnjohn]

There's no shortage of stupid mutton headed knuckle-dragging mouth breathing gombeens anywhere in the country. The planning objections in Dublin is an excellent example. The trouble is that gonbeens elect their own.
The grown-ups in the EU will eventually force us to face reality.

The trouble is the gombeens are getting votes and a free pass when they call to the doors of people who know the score like your good self, why should they change,
The trouble with watered-down planning in favour of NIMBY is once the building goes up we have lost the opportunity to build homes putting as little pressure on the environment as possible,

no point in closing turf power stations in the midlands and due to gombeen planning in Dublin and surrounding areas, forcing the building of homes in the midlands burning up energy travelling to and from work in Dublin,