EBS EBS Tracker V’s Loan Ofer

pguyo

Frequent Poster
Messages
75
What was the variable rate in april and may 2008. As I said previously the rate on loan offer was 5.25 "variable base" and on the loan cheque letter it was 5.33 "variable base rate". It does say the rate can change between loan off and cheque issue. Id like to see the rates for april and may 2008 to see what they match up with. I have tried that web archive but cant find anything.
I have managed to access those rates...... The tracker rate does not seem to be available at that time although EBS did not withdraw trackers until October 2008
Its all a bit complicated.
The 3 year fixed was 4.98 and "variable" 5.25 effective 4th March 2008.
Amended Loan Offer 14th April has 4.84 3 year fixed and "Variable Base (currently 5.25%)"
The and 3 year fixed was 5.19 and "variable" on their website was 5.33 effective from 13th May 2008.
Loan cheque issued on 6th May 2008 with a 3 year fixed of 4.98 and 5.33 "Variable Base Rate".
I dont think we have a case but I will let Mr. Kissane decide for certain.
Data request sent to EBS on Friday so hopefully not waiting too long.
 

B26354

Frequent Poster
Messages
254
4.84 was the fixed. It doesnt say what type of rate after 3 years only that its 5.25 which equals the variable and the applicable tracker 4.00+ 1.25
What was the variable rate in april and may 2008. As I said previously the rate on loan offer was 5.25 "variable base" and on the loan cheque letter it was 5.33 "variable base rate". It does say the rate can change between loan off and cheque issue. Id like to see the rates for april and may 2008 to see what they match up with. I have tried that web archive but cant find anything.
No idea Pguyo. Mid 2008 is when the banks started to see the problems with “tracking” the ECB rate.All of the contracts I’ve seen from 2004-2008 with this variable base rate definition seem to follow the ECB base rate plus the 1.25 point difference/margin that EBS used.EBS themselves provided evidence of this by sending out letters to customers with this sort of loan offer & definition confirming that their repayments have gone up by 0.25% because the ECB rate has gone up by 0.25%.

I think it was around mid 2008 when the banks started to review the interest rate basis or tweak margins on SVR loans. Perhaps they did the same thing if there was ambiguity in contracts/loan offers and your issue of cheque letter might demonstrate that? The difficulty for EBS is the ambiguity of the terms used and evidence that pre mid 2008 the interest rate basis of these loans was clearly linked to the ECB base rate plus a margin and now they are not.EBS will just argue that they’ve been SVR’s all along.
 

B26354

Frequent Poster
Messages
254
No idea Pguyo. Mid 2008 is when the banks started to see the problems with “tracking” the ECB rate.All of the contracts I’ve seen from 2004-2008 with this variable base rate definition seem to follow the ECB base rate plus the 1.25 point difference/margin that EBS used.EBS themselves provided evidence of this by sending out letters to customers with this sort of loan offer & definition confirming that their repayments have gone up by 0.25% because the ECB rate has gone up by 0.25%.

I think it was around mid 2008 when the banks started to review the interest rate basis or tweak margins on SVR loans. Perhaps they did the same thing if there was ambiguity in contracts/loan offers and your issue of cheque letter might demonstrate that? The difficulty for EBS is the ambiguity of the terms used and evidence that pre mid 2008 the interest rate basis of these loans was clearly linked to the ECB base rate plus a margin and now they are not.EBS will just argue that they’ve been SVR’s all along.
Here’s a good explanation of a banks base rate and what happened in 2008. The article references the Central Bank of England but same principle applies.

https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/7460/interest-rates/base-rates-and-bank-interest-rates/
 

IdesofMarch

Frequent Poster
Messages
290
What was the variable rate in april and may 2008. As I said previously the rate on loan offer was 5.25 "variable base" and on the loan cheque letter it was 5.33 "variable base rate". It does say the rate can change between loan off and cheque issue. Id like to see the rates for april and may 2008 to see what they match up with. I have tried that web archive but cant find anything.
pguyo, B26354,

This is the definition of what a base rate is:

The base rate, or base interest rate, is the interest rate that a central bank – like the Bank of England or Federal Reserve – will charge to lend money to commercial banks.

While they are free to set their own interest rates for borrowing, overall the rates charged on loans and offered on savings by commercial banks tend to be derived from the base rate. This allows central banks to use base rates to encourage or discourage spending, depending on the state of the economy.

In the years after the recession, for example, many central banks kept interest rates at record lows. This in turn led most commercial banks to charge low interest rates on loans to customers, but also offer low interest rates on money held in accounts. With the cost of borrowing low and the benefit from saving minimal, consumers should in theory be encouraged to spend money instead of saving it, giving a boost to businesses and the economy.

Central banks release regular statements detailing their policy on base rates. See when the next release is on the economic calendar.

Interesting times ahead for EBS
 

RAzvan R

Frequent Poster
Messages
54
2066CC69-73F0-43DE-89F1-9D82319EA40F.jpeg
See 4th paragraph of Tracker form were is clear that you can change from Tracker rate (Variable Base) to Fix rate or SVR once without penalty.
Is not mention in the Tracker form that you can change to Variable Base because Variable Base was the Tracker.
 

RAzvan R

Frequent Poster
Messages
54
I have managed to access those rates...... The tracker rate does not seem to be available at that time although EBS did not withdraw trackers until October 2008
Its all a bit complicated.
The 3 year fixed was 4.98 and "variable" 5.25 effective 4th March 2008.
Amended Loan Offer 14th April has 4.84 3 year fixed and "Variable Base (currently 5.25%)"
The and 3 year fixed was 5.19 and "variable" on their website was 5.33 effective from 13th May 2008.
Loan cheque issued on 6th May 2008 with a 3 year fixed of 4.98 and 5.33 "Variable Base Rate".
I dont think we have a case but I will let Mr. Kissane decide for certain.
Data request sent to EBS on Friday so hopefully not waiting too long.
If this info can help on the 20th of May 2008 the rate was Variable Base at 4% + 1.25% ECB margins based on LTV of >90 < 80.
 

haveaniceday

Frequent Poster
Messages
134
PGUYO - whats weird about that doc is how can they say the rate will be 5.25% after 3 years - they dont know - if its a tracker or an svr they can't tell you it will be a 5.25%
I think these loan agreements we have are hardly worth the paper they are written on - why isn't the CB or the regulator investigating thes crappy loan documents - lets face it all these guys wanted was to lend what ever they could to whom ever no matter what and as fast as possible and what a mess they have left behind.

from reading the annual reports the EBS loan book was 4 billion in 2004 - and by 2008 it was 16 billion
- sure who would have had time to check these documents - what with all that money flying around - the commissions paid out must have been eye watering aswell - of course we are paying for that too now !!

and still they are covering and and to be honest so far they really have been let get away with it
surely someone at this point in the CB should be investigating EBS and what they were doing between 2004 and 2008 ??????????
 

B26354

Frequent Poster
Messages
254
PGUYO - whats weird about that doc is how can they say the rate will be 5.25% after 3 years - they dont know - if its a tracker or an svr they can't tell you it will be a 5.25%
I think these loan agreements we have are hardly worth the paper they are written on - why isn't the CB or the regulator investigating thes crappy loan documents - lets face it all these guys wanted was to lend what ever they could to whom ever no matter what and as fast as possible and what a mess they have left behind.

from reading the annual reports the EBS loan book was 4 billion in 2004 - and by 2008 it was 16 billion
- sure who would have had time to check these documents - what with all that money flying around - the commissions paid out must have been eye watering aswell - of course we are paying for that too now !!

and still they are covering and and to be honest so far they really have been let get away with it
surely someone at this point in the CB should be investigating EBS and what they were doing between 2004 and 2008 ??????????
The CB should ask Shane Ross what was going on in EBS during those years.
 

deansmith27

Registered User
Messages
45
I took out 2 loans with ebs in august 2008

one was a buy to let and it states on the loan offer document it is a 'variable buy to let'

the second was a homeloan and its states on the loan document 'variable base '
( nothing else no mention of ecb, tracker or a +xx%)

- i have a copy of a fax from my broker to ebs requesting a tracker on the homeloan ( previously the offer was for fixed for 3 years) and then the loan offer was re-issued with the words 'base rate'

following this re-issued loan offer being emailed to me i have an email from my broker as follows:

The ‘Tracker’ is a variable rate and is the best one available. The other variable rate option is 5.25%.


so as things went i had asked for and though i had been put on trackers for both mortgages.... but... it did not turn out that way

between november 2008 and april 2009 i have letters from ebs informng me on both loans that
'ebs will be passing on the full decrease of xx% on its variable loan rate

the buy to let and the homeloan letters said the exact same thing ' variable loan rate' between 2008 and 2009

but then my homeloan rate stopped following the ecb rate and increased- and the variable buy to let tracked the ecb rate

( and at this point the letters no longer defined the loan type when refering to the increase/decrease and simply said 'your loan' will increase/decrease)

i was not aware this had happened ( one loan was on a tracker and one was not) and only questioned it when i saw the rates on one going up while the other went down - i was then told that at that time that they were actually issuing me with my mortgage check there was no longer a tracker available for both so they could just give me a tracker on one - ?
I believe this also happened to me. A tracker at first then rolled to and SVR around 2008/2009 when EBS's new SVR rate aligned with their variable base rate aka a tracker. This then increased their margin hugely on the mortgage as they no longer gave back the tracked ecb decreases in the subsequent years.

How we haven't been deemed impacted by the tracker redress is beyond me.

To be removed from one rate to another without any prior agreement is even more blatant than not being allowed back to a tracker after fixing for a period.
Someone please tell me am I missing something here??
 
Last edited:

haveaniceday

Frequent Poster
Messages
134
Hi Deansmith27 - what did your loan document say - was it a variable base rate you were to roll onto after the fixed period expired? or did you not have a fixed rate at all
or did you document have anything with ecb + xx%

what exactly did you sign up for from the start - and when did you get your mortgage?
 

deansmith27

Registered User
Messages
45
Hi haveaniceday. Was never on a fixed. Rolled from an ecb + 1.25% margin to an Svr. Signed for a tracker ''for the life of the loan'' originally. Awaiting more docs from sars
 

deansmith27

Registered User
Messages
45
Hi @RAzvan R

Have you been deemed impacted by EBS. I have a very similar case to you yet still receiving holding letters from EBS. My case is currently with Padraic Kissane.

Has anyone else been deemed impacted yet?

Thanks

DS
 

haveaniceday

Frequent Poster
Messages
134
I am still getting the holding letters - What is taking so long I just can't imagine - i FOI'd all the information on my account - it would take a 10 year old 10 minutes to look at it - how it has taken ebs 6 months plus is beyond me - there was simply no information in the foi - either no one bothered to keep notes or it was all lost or they did not give it to me - I sent in a second FOI request as i was so shocked by how little info i was sent the first time - nothing more came back of relevance the second time - I have more notes and emails my self collected than what they managed to send me - this is such a white wash if you ask me - why are the central bank are being so easy on ebs ????
 

deansmith27

Registered User
Messages
45
Hi,

My Sars request also failed to furnish a lot of documents. They don't even have my original loan offer. My experience of EBS is that its a totally dysfunctional institution. AiB bought it for €1 in 2011. That was a very expensive deal for AIB.

After two years of the CBI tracker investigation it was only when I asked them was my tracker under review did they send me a letter. What were they waiting for.
When they ask me to pay an arrear and I ask them to stop overcharging me they referred me to a local branch manager who got onto this magical 'tracker review team' who dont revert to their own staff with their findings.
They outsource their arrears dept who have staff on an auto dial function for people in arrears. The last time this call centre rang she started laughing when I informed her I was still being overcharged and she said it was ok.

The CBI's terms of reference for the tracker investigation explicitly states that if evidence is found which shows that a customer is being overcharged they must stop further harm to the customer. I proved this months ago yet I'm still being overcharged.

Mortgage Masters my eye

DS
 
Top