Dunphy and Giles and Irish Soccer

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WarrenBuffet

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Are they for real? I can see where they are coming from, to an extent, but honestly they way they are talking you would swear Ireland should be hammering Italy! The team may be getting older but they are the bloody world champions!!

They keep mentioning Andy Reid - you would swear he was Zinedine Zidane. He was dropped from the squad for discipline reasons.......plus it isnt as if he is lighting up the Premiership!

As for consistently mentioning that little ****er Stephen Ireland! No matter how good he is do we really want a little tool like that pulling on the green jersey and representing Ireland!

Finally, (rant almost over), the way they talk about Trappatoni you would swear he was some idiot who didn't really have a clue what he is doing! What have they done to even compare to what he has? I don't offer my opinion on what my doctor says because at the end of the day i know sfa about what he is telling me!
 
WarrenBuffet said:
Are they for real? I can see where they are coming from, to an extent, but honestly they way they are talking you would swear Ireland should be hammering Italy! The team may be getting older but they are the bloody world champions!!

They keep mentioning Andy Reid - you would swear he was Zinedine Zidane. He was dropped from the squad for discipline reasons.......plus it isnt as if he is lighting up the Premiership!

As for consistently mentioning that little ****er Stephen Ireland! No matter how good he is do we really want a little tool like that pulling on the green jersey and representing Ireland!

Finally, (rant almost over), the way they talk about Trappatoni you would swear he was some idiot who didn't really have a clue what he is doing! What have they done to even compare to what he has? I don't offer my opinion on what my doctor says because at the end of the day i know sfa about what he is telling me!
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Was going to start a post on it. Agree 100% with you on this . .

Feck stephen Ireland (I have no time for him, he would be more a hinderance on team morale then a help, he needs to get down on his knees and beg for us to take him back before he should be considered), feck Andy Reid for not towing the line.

If we are packing our bags for a trip to South Africa next year, will anybody really care!

Its amazing how the likes of Italy and German teams are called "worst in living memory" then they make the finals of the big tournies!! Maybe they have it all wrong at montrose!

We are the third seeds in this group and are challenging for top spot. We finally have a world class manager who is definantly making the most out of our limited players. We just drew away to the world champions . What more can we ask for.
 
I have to agree with the boys in that this is the worst Italian team in many years.

I have been watching football since the late 70s and its certainly the worst I have seen. Same goes for likes of Germany too.

There is a massive lowering in the standard of world football, and if we were honest this Ireland team isn't even in the same league as some of our teams of the past.

If you want proof that the standard is low, just have a look around the qualifying. NI are sitting top of their group for God's sake after, wait for it, their 4th consecutive win for the 1st time in their history!!

As for the slagging of the Trap, I think I remember Dunphy saying recently that he is the best manager that Ireland have ever had.

And I too wish they would stop chatting about IReland and Reid. Ireland has been asked often enough, he obviously doesn't care. As for Reid, he is a talented but slow and overweight player who can't even get on for his club side regularly. Obviously the Trap looks at him and thinks that the current midfield will do more work and running than he'll ever do.
 
Is there a massive lowering in the standard of world football or has there been a bridging of the gap. The superpowers still make the finals regularly but they don't have the games as handy as before. Teams are better organised, players are super fit so even if they are limited they can cover alot of grass and make it alot harder for the 'quality' teams to prosper. There is also greater levels of info available with detailed analysis of players and teams tactics so the gap has definitely been bridged in my opinion.
It is simply too easy to say that this Italian team is poor when the stats show they are World champions, and unbeaten and on top of their group. what do irish soccer players have to do to get some credit?

NI have made the world cup finals in the past so why not again? We have a strong enough squad to get us there and hopefully the country will back them before we reach the final rather than just cheering them on when they do.
 
I think if you just consider some of the names of the past then teams atre getting worse. But again thats only my opinion.

As for NI and RoI being as good as their teams of the past, I would ask why so many of their players aren't playing at the top level. If they were good enough they would be playing at the top clubs, and many are not.

As for giving IReland credit, I thought they played excellently tonight, and it would have been no surprise if they had sneaked it at the end.

It was good to see the Trap having to get adventurous - at least now we know he can do it if he has to.
 
Dunphy thinks he is god and probably feels he should be running the country I am totally bored listening to his outpourings.
 
Totally agree with ye WB. I couldn't get over how negative they were last night. For Gods sake we just drew with the world champions away from home! Never mind what the lads say about how poor they were, we're no world beaters either! For Dunphy to say Trap should get down on his knees and thank the players is just typical of that bufoon. He's like Hook on the rugby, be as opinionated and controversial as possible just for the sake of it. If you look back at all our past managers has there ever been one that he didn't continually slag off? Even Giles lost some credibility last night with his bleating and moaning, Christ you'd think we had a team of world class players! Just look at the team that finished the game last night - probably about 4 genuine international standard players in there (Given, Dunne, O'Shea and Keane).
 
Irrespective of whether Italy, Germany or Ireland are going through a rough patch - my post was a gripe about Giles and Dunphys totally unrealistic expectations and over the top complaining.

I am not even sure that I believe in Dunphys integrity as an analyst - his whole tv personality is built around being a controversial, out-spoken individual that focuses in on a few regularly targeted individuals. Trappatoni has joined his hit list..........but I ask wtf has dunphy ever done to even compare to what Trappatoni has won both as a player and as a manager.

This is what Trappaotoni has won:
Player

Manager






Dunphy, and to an extent Giles, arent fit to lace his boots! In comparison they are the hurlers on the ditch!

And to clarify i am no Trapatonni fan - not even that into soccer personally. But it just annoys me when i listen to the rte panels procrastinations.
 
I watched the game but I did not hear the post match analysis.

My 2 cents;

Italy were poor but they were down to 10 men and went out with an attacking formation so I think that rattled them.

Italy had a few 1st team regular injured - Gattuso, Toni etc. They are also an aging team.

Ireland did not play well until the last 15 minutes I thought. McShane at right back is a disaster waiting to happen.

1-1. Good result away even against 10 men. Bulgaria away is a big one.
 
As for NI and RoI being as good as their teams of the past, I would ask why so many of their players aren't playing at the top level. If they were good enough they would be playing at the top clubs, and many are not.
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8 of the starting 11 who played last night are Premiership regulars. 2 of the remaining 3 have been regular starters in the Premiership.

The Premiership and La Liga have pulled a good bit ahead of the other European major leagues over the past 2-3 years. Italian football is suffering financial and organisational problems and has leaked a lot of talent and failed to attract as many world class players as in previous years.

So, to play devil's advocat here, if you were asked to chose the winner of a game between a bunch of Premiership regular starters and a bunch of Serie A regular starters, you would almost certainly chose the Premiership players.

Essentially, the bulk of our players are playing in a better league that the bulk of the Italian players, so why would anyone be surprised with the result?

People often say that Irish teams of the past had a lot more players who dominated at the top level in England - many were among the best players in their respective clubs. They forget that there has been a massive increase in standards in the Premier League, so many of those who would have dominated in the late 80s, early 90s would struggle in todays Premier League. Pundits are not comparing like for like. An average Premier League player of today may be a much better player than a star of yesteryear.

Nothwithstanding the above, there are about 30 Irish players on Premier League first team squads, most of whom are getting regular gametime. Look back to the Charlton era and you'll find that a lot of players in the Ireland squad were not even playing in the old Division 1. Credit where credit is due, Charlton go the best out of a squad that had some star players, but practically no debt. But Trap is working with a much deeper squad.
 
How about analysing the analysis!

After Greece won Europe in 2004 Dunphy declared that Ireland, with a little organisation, could do the same.

Trappatoni has brought organisation, but now Dunphy wants flair and liberated players.

Last night 1-0 down Trappatoni sent out a clear signal by changing tactics, effectively giving the players creative licence. Dunphy calls him a poker player!

I think Trappatoni hit a low ebb last Saturday but has won back my confidence by showing he is willing to change strategy, but only if needs be.

Dunphy on the other hand has only one strategy, and that's to whinge (recently digressing into politics and Economics as well as Soccer) that no one cares except him. If he did care enough about his job he'd give a balanced view rather than simply take a dislike to someone and criticise them for ever after.
 
csirl said:
Nothwithstanding the above, there are about 30 Irish players on Premier League first team squads, most of whom are getting regular gametime. Look back to the Charlton era and you'll find that a lot of players in the Ireland squad were not even playing in the old Division 1. Credit where credit is due, Charlton go the best out of a squad that had some star players, but practically no debt. But Trap is working with a much deeper squad.
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csirl I'd argue differently on that. Most of the current squad is made up of average players as opposed to the squad Charlton had. Look at the facts:
The Euro 88 squad had players from the following top clubs:
Celtic 3
Liverpool 3
Man Utd 3
Everton 1
Tottenham 1
Arsenal 1

Whereas the current squad only has the following - the rest might be premiership but they're from much smaller clubs, mostly fighting relegation.
Celtic 2
Man Utd 2
Man City 2
Tottenham 1
 
Have to say I'd generally agree with Giles, and Dunphy to a lesser extent.

In fairness to them they have acknowledged that we have limited players and that they are giving their all for the cause. Dont think any of that is in question.

While Ireland played better than recently, it was against 10 men and with 5 minutes to go it looked like we were on a loser since for all our possession we werent creating any decent chances. So I think we should we should feel lucky we got a draw.

What Dunphy was giving out about was mainly a few selections and switches. For instance taking off Doyle when you are 1 down and desparately need a goal doesnt make much sense. There's a carousel of nobodys coming in and out of that midfield with no apparent logic to it, so while Reid is no messiah it would make sense to have him as an option - the annoying/frustrating thing is that its clear that Trap & Brady would rather put on a waterboy than Reid since their pride and stubborness is limiting their options.

As for Stephen Ireland, I dont think G & D, or anyone else of note, is blaming anyone other than (possibly) the man himself for not playing. Understandable that people lament his absence given the dearth of talent in that sector.

So hope we qualify, Trap doing ok with what he has but a few strange decisions here and there.
 
I cant believe people are defending dunphy and co.

Firstly, big Jack made a joke of Irelands most talented squad of players. We had a much stronger bunch of individual first teamers back then. Wont go into it as if you dont recognise this, you shouldnt be talking football,

Secondly, the squad players available to Ireland are very limited and 2nd-3rd seed material. Shay Given, Richard Dunne and Robbie Keane are our best players playing regular football for top teams. Mcgeady plays in Scotland (but is good IMO), O'Shea is a bit part player played everywhere for united, McShane is definantly one of the worst players in the team and plays for a relegation struggling team, Kilbane is a likable player who gives it 100%, whelan and andrews dont necessarily start for their clubs, Hunt and Doyle play in the championship.

Not really sure where all these top premier league players are that somebody mentioned. How many of Italys bench (let alone starting team) would oust some of our guys!

There appears to be a distinct lack of reality on the part of some Irish Fans. S.Ireland doesnt want to play for us, nothing to do with Trapp. Andy Reid took the pss on a factfinding tour, even if apologised and came back, it means we make be better going forward but most definantly would be more vunerable in defence. Lee Carsley, this is actually one of the few things I cant understand with Stephen Reid being unfit.

This group is very tight (highlighted by the few goals and many draws) and there is very little between all the teams (remember we got some of the hardest lower seeds out there as they have good players but were not seeded because they are fledgling teams).

The manager has us on track to get to the world cup with an organised, tough to beat team , with an average bunch of players. Most of the Italian team won the world cup, so how anybody can conveniently push this aside when debating how good they are is laughable.

In 94 and 2006 the Italian national team were seen as average Italian sides yet they both reached the final of the w.c. Same thing can be said of Germany in 2002 that were "the worst german team in living history". What that says is that these top teams always have more then the eye sees.

Trapp isnt perfect by any means, but he is the best manager Ireland has ever had . . . Had he Big Jacks team I really think we could of won a major tournie.
 
Er just a few points(agree with most of what's been said)
Dunphy is a pain in the.....,he loves a cause & Andy Reid for him fits the bill.This is despite the fact that he is overweight,there are alleged rumours re drinking & he is not even a regular at Sunderland(I'm not aware of him having blinders for Sunderland).trap has made an excellent decision(in the face of a lot of opposition) re wanting his team to be professional & disciplined,Reid doesn't fulfill these criteria.
As regards,Stephen Ireland,I'm sick of people whining about him.he doesn't want to play so please forget about him.It's his decision.I would have no interest in a player being in my team who has mixed feelings re playing.I wouldn't be able to rely on his commitment.
As for Charlton,yes we played ugly football ,but we loved germany 88 & Italia 90,so let's not be revisionist.Do you remeber that with largely the same group of players,we finished 4th behind Denmark,Russia & Norway in qualifying for Mexico 86.
So in summary,stop listening to that idiot(who remember,said "you cant get good cocaine in this town anymore",yet he's the same guy who talks about moral courage etc,blah, blah).
As for Giles,I have alot of time for Giles,but get Dunphy off.
 
Betsy Og said:
Have to say I'd generally agree with Giles, and Dunphy to a lesser extent.

In fairness to them they have acknowledged that we have limited players and that they are giving their all for the cause. Dont think any of that is in question.

While Ireland played better than recently, it was against 10 men and with 5 minutes to go it looked like we were on a loser since for all our possession we werent creating any decent chances. So I think we should we should feel lucky we got a draw.

What Dunphy was giving out about was mainly a few selections and switches. For instance taking off Doyle when you are 1 down and desparately need a goal doesnt make much sense. There's a carousel of nobodys coming in and out of that midfield with no apparent logic to it, so while Reid is no messiah it would make sense to have him as an option - the annoying/frustrating thing is that its clear that Trap & Brady would rather put on a waterboy than Reid since their pride and stubborness is limiting their options.

As for Stephen Ireland, I dont think G & D, or anyone else of note, is blaming anyone other than (possibly) the man himself for not playing. Understandable that people lament his absence given the dearth of talent in that sector.

So hope we qualify, Trap doing ok with what he has but a few strange decisions here and there.
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normally you wouldn't take off Doyle, but he looked tired and didn't have an impact during the hour he was there. I thought Noel Hunt did very well when he came on.
Regards S. Ireland Dunphy keeps saying Trap hasn't done enough to get him back but surely enough has been said on the topic and it is clear that he is happy to not play for his country.
 
Firstly, big Jack made a joke of Irelands most talented squad of players. We had a much stronger bunch of individual first teamers back then. Wont go into it as if you dont recognise this, you shouldnt be talking football,
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well they say its a game of opinions.

Secondly, the squad players available to Ireland are very limited and 2nd-3rd seed material. Shay Given, Richard Dunne and Robbie Keane are our best players playing regular football for top teams. Mcgeady plays in Scotland (but is good IMO), O'Shea is a bit part player played everywhere for united, McShane is definantly one of the worst players in the team and plays for a relegation struggling team, Kilbane is a likable player who gives it 100%, whelan and andrews dont necessarily start for their clubs, Hunt and Doyle play in the championship.
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Agree on Mcshane, O'Shea is consistently starting for United and was almost ever present for their record breaking clean sheet run. Doyle & Hunt should be with mid table prem clubs by next season. Jack picked up plenty of players with the Granny rule who were operating at a lower level and subsequently made the big step ups to bigger clubs, our young lads might very well do the same. I think andrews is also a fairly regular starter now for Blackburn aswell.
 
Dunphy with the soccer and Hook with the rugby are there for the entertainment value. To be fair to Hook he knows about rugby but has copped on that he can get a bigger profile by acting like Dunphy. I don't know why anyone would take them seriously. Dunphy can't even make up his own mind about things. I think I heard in the space of two months that Ronanldo is a clown, Ronaldo is world class, Ronaldo is a disgrace, Ronaldo is a super star.
Having said that I think the chemistry of the panel in both rugby and soccer work well even if the Dunphy act is getting a bit tiresome. At least RTE provide better analysis and allow the analysts to speak their minds and have a debate. Look at the difference in Graham Souness when he is on RTE compared to Sky Sports. As bad as Dunphy is, I would always listen to him and Giles ahead of people like Redknapp, Shearer, Hanson, Townsend etc. Giles for me is the best analyst around.
 
One thing is for sure - that italian player should not have been sent off. Poor decision.
 
Betsy Og said:
What Dunphy was giving out about was mainly a few selections and switches. For instance taking off Doyle when you are 1 down and desparately need a goal doesnt make much sense. There's a carousel of nobodys coming in and out of that midfield with no apparent logic to it, so while Reid is no messiah it would make sense to have him as an option - the annoying/frustrating thing is that its clear that Trap & Brady would rather put on a waterboy than Reid since their pride and stubborness is limiting their options.



Sorry you are way of the mark - Reid is a Fat Boy failure- Gibson being blooded now makes far more sense than bringing on guitar strumming Mars boys
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