Dry lining and pumping cavity walls

Haille

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I have a 1989 dormer bungalow with 2 inch aeroboard insulation in the cavity.I was considering pumping the cavity with bead to fill the remaining cavity and dry lining the internal walls.The house is teak double glazed, no floor insulation.Attic insulated.Any advice please.
 
In Ireland the most common cause of heat loss in houses is by convection (draughts or lack of air tightness) and not conduction (insulation). We live in a temperate but windy climate. From my 2 decades of practical experience in testing, surveying and advising on heat loss solutions I would say without fear or favour we are paying too much attention to the quantity of insulation rather the quality of installation and the big one being the lack of airtightness.

In a standard 3 bed semi or a bungalow achieving decent air tightness very often happens by accident rather than design. However when it comes to dormers, because a significant portion of the internal living space is actually in the roof structure, unless care was taken at design and build stages of the project the level of air leakage is significant. If also there is a suspended (unsealed) timber ground floor then this just adds to the problem. All these issues can be successfully addressed by applying the appropriate air tight measures.

Rarely (if ever) does insulation on it's own address the issue of heat loss and a different approach is generally required.

The solution starts with an independent heat loss survey which includes an air tightness test in addition to thermal imaging survey. Key to this is the surveyor is experienced and expert in their building physics knowledge because internal moisture control through appropriate ventilation is also vital to get get a comprehensive solution.
 
Many thanks for your informed reply.Unfortunately I had an air test done which cost me 400 euro.I was very disappointed with the report.Basically a guy on a laptop.The report gave no guidelines whatsoever other than replace my beautiful timber roof panelling with insulated slabs.I could removed some of the panelling and try and insert insulation. On another post in order to see if I would qualify for PV solar panels a local assessment engineer quoted me 600 euro to carry out a BER assessment.I would also have to have another BER after installing PV panels to see if they reached the required BeR rating.So I am totally disillusioned with testing.It seems whatever grants that are available are simply consumed by testing.The same local engineer quoted me 1000 euro for assessment if Iwas going down the route of heat pump.
 
In Ireland the most common cause of heat loss in houses is by convection (draughts or lack of air tightness) and not conduction (insulation). We live in a temperate but windy climate. From my 2 decades of practical experience in testing, surveying and advising on heat loss solutions I would say without fear or favour we are paying too much attention to the quantity of insulation rather the quality of installation and the big one being the lack of airtightness.

In a standard 3 bed semi or a bungalow achieving decent air tightness very often happens by accident rather than design. However when it comes to dormers, because a significant portion of the internal living space is actually in the roof structure, unless care was taken at design and build stages of the project the level of air leakage is significant. If also there is a suspended (unsealed) timber ground floor then this just adds to the problem. All these issues can be successfully addressed by applying the appropriate air tight measures.

Rarely (if ever) does insulation on it's own address the issue of heat loss and a different approach is generally required.

The solution starts with an independent heat loss survey which includes an air tightness test in addition to thermal imaging survey. Key to this is the surveyor is experienced and expert in their building physics knowledge because internal moisture control through appropriate ventilation is also vital to get get a comprehensive solution.
How much does thermal imaging cost? I have had an air test done.
 
Many thanks for your informed reply.Unfortunately I had an air test done which cost me 400 euro.I was very disappointed with the report.Basically a guy on a laptop.The report gave no guidelines whatsoever other than replace my beautiful timber roof panelling with insulated slabs.I could removed some of the panelling and try and insert insulation. On another post in order to see if I would qualify for PV solar panels a local assessment engineer quoted me 600 euro to carry out a BER assessment.I would also have to have another BER after installing PV panels to see if they reached the required BeR rating.So I am totally disillusioned with testing.It seems whatever grants that are available are simply consumed by testing.The same local engineer quoted me 1000 euro for assessment if Iwas going down the route of heat pump.
It appears like you may have received a poor service and poor value for money with the air tightness test.
Did the 'guy on a laptop' not spend time with you to ensure you understood the significance of the findings in relation to priorities and how best to address the issues uncovered based on your plans & budget and did he address your future likely ventilation needs to ensure good air quality?
In the report you got, what result does it give for your air tightness? You will find this reported as either the q50 in m3/hr/m2@50Pa or n50 in ACH.
Don't let the availability of government grants drive what improvements you make and where you invest. Figure out first what you want to achieve (for example a warmer, more efficient & healthy home), how best to get there from where you are now and then if a grant is available for a particular improvement measure identified, great, avail of it. Too often, expensive grant aided measures are shoehorned into projects with little to no benefit to the homeowners.

Btw, the BER is not a test of the house as such but is more like a rating system (box ticking) based predominately on the age of the property and, in my experience for existing housing, is generally not worth the paper it's written on.
 
Many thanks for that.I will look again at the report and see if I can make sense of it
 
The result of the air test was 10.242 m3/hm2.
He mentioned leakage from tongued and groove ceiling boards in our high ceilings in small hallway inside which is some glass fibre insulation .I had an insulation guy call yesterday about dry lining.Very reluctant to go down that road as it would incur a lot of expense removing skirting , rads bathroom ware , fitted wardrobe.Nor worried by cost of insulation but cost of plumber, plasterer and electrician.He suggested going down the route of electric Ireland and a complete retrofit.which might entail 50,000 euros or more.
As we are in our early 60.s with 3 adult children living away from home.Just wondering if a complete retrofit would ever be justified.? Seeing the disruption caused by dry lining I would have gone down external insulation route but unfortunately all the front of our house is in Leitrim stone that is the outer leaf of the front walls is dressed sandstone.If I thought I could externally insulate the the other 3 walls of the house and come up with a different solution for the front walls.
 
It appears like you may have received a poor service and poor value for money with the air tightness test.
Did the 'guy on a laptop' not spend time with you to ensure you understood the significance of the findings in relation to priorities and how best to address the issues uncovered based on your plans & budget and did he address your future likely ventilation needs to ensure good air quality?
In the report you got, what result does it give for your air tightness? You will find this reported as either the q50 in m3/hr/m2@50Pa or n50 in ACH.
Don't let the availability of government grants drive what improvements you make and where you invest. Figure out first what you want to achieve (for example a warmer, more efficient & healthy home), how best to get there from where you are now and then if a grant is available for a particular improvement measure identified, great, avail of it. Too often, expensive grant aided measures are shoehorned into projects with little to no benefit to the homeowners.

Btw, the BER is not a test of the house as such but is more like a rating system (box ticking) based predominately on the age of the property and, in my experience for existing housing, is generally not worth the paper it's written on.
If i have the Cavity walls in my house (Built 1950) pumped along with my attic; Do you think there is a need to also do dry lining insulation on the interior walls?

Currently rennovationg the entire house but also concious of budget as I will be upgrading the external doors, wiring Etc etc.
 
What size cavity? Has the cavity been surveyed? (Not sure a '50's house would have much of a cavity) What are you pumping the cavity with? Are you also pumping the attic or just worded poorly?

Sorry, not nearly enough info to advise appropriately on the iwi but in general & in my opinion / experience, it is not a good idea unless there is a compelling reason for it and only then with appropriate materials which can easily handle moisture loading / breathing etc.
 
Hi, I know its a 9 inch cavity block for the external walls. They would be pumped with bonded bead cavity insulation.

The attic would be insulated with spray foam up to the roof ridge with vents installed too. And i'd probably add the rock wool to the floors of my attic. hope that helps.
 
I am in a similar situation. I am renovating a 80s bungalow with an empty 70mm cavity. I am getting it pumped with bonded bead but considering dry lining as well but not sure if that would be worth it. What do you think? The house will be getting new windows/doors so hopefully will be reasonably air tight.
 
The following answer to a very vague question is, by necessity, general in nature.
In our relatively mild climate I would likely pump the empty cavity (assuming it is not a timber framed house), find and address the low hanging fruit with regards to air leakage (actually do an airtightness test first to find the issues), seriously consider a simple whole house ventilation system but would likely not add iwi to the mix for various reasons.
Contrary to general perception, quite often the actual windows & doors are NOT the main cause of air leakage in houses and this surprises people when demonstrated why (Anecdotally, window replacement is recommended in less than 1 in 10 existing houses I test/survey for air tightness)
 
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We decided to dry line internal walls with 50mm insulated plaster board sheet in a 1980s house where internal space was not an issue. The cavity wall was already insulated with 50mm when the house was built but the internal wall surface was cool to touch. Total insulation was now 100mm and it was much easier to heat plus the internal plaster board wall surface was not cool to the touch.

Because we had used insulated plaster board with vapour membrane, we had to install air vents.

The attic insulation was topped up to 300mm.

The BER after the work was a C3 and the advisory report gave some further suggestions for future improvements in the energy rating, e.g. new windows and doors.

While renovating I would either dry line or alternatively consider the external insulation.
 
The following answer to a very vague question is, by necessity, general in nature.
In our relatively mild climate I would likely pump the empty cavity (assuming it is not a timber framed house), find and address the low hanging fruit with regards to air leakage (actually do an airtightness test first to find the issues), seriously consider a simple whole house ventilation system but would likely not add iwi to the mix for various reasons.
Contrary to general perception, quite often the actual windows & doors are NOT the main cause of air leakage in houses and this surprises people when demonstrated why (Anecdotally, window replacement is recommended in less than 1 in 10 existing houses I test/survey for air tightness)
One of the reasons we walked away from a 1 stop shop in terms of insulation was that their salesman had an obsession with replacing windows but, for example, couldn't explain adequately the benefits of solar. A second review by a local company advised us that we would be daft to replace windows and it would have added minimal impact.

Currrently doing the external wrap with a local provider and project managing the upgrades ourselves, not yet finished but the difference in heat retention is noticable.
 
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